The only problem with that plan? It's easy for a Chinese spy to infiltrate the US: we're a nation of immigrants, and there have been Chinese here since the Spanish owned California.

However, it's not easy for Han Chinese to just "fit in" in North Korea. They're different. Heck, even if some 2 million ethnic Koreans that live in China could be trained as spys, THEY'D still be suspect since they look and speak differently too. North Koreans are shorter than South and Chinese Koreans, and their language is so colored by patriotic code it woudl be very easy to fit in. It would also take years or even decades to get into "secured" positions, since they wouldn't start off with membership in the Communist Party and without a lineage it would be hard to get.

Also, the fallout from a nuclear missile would blow over either China or Japan. Bad news either way.

@backtobasics-1076842

Just what we need, another warmongering superpower.

@FaltIron720": Just what we need, another warmongering superpower.

Can you name a non-warmongering power?
From Afghanistan to Zimbabwe, every single country on the Earth is warring with somebody or has within the last 100 years.
Some war within themselves (Ivory Coast, Syria) some within other countries (US, Canada, UK, etc in Afghanistan) and some technically because a war is not over (Australia is still at war with North Korea). But all war with someone.

China won't do a GD thing. North Korea is the plug in the bottle that stops Chinese citizens for making a "Run for the border."

They have been brainwashed and malnourished (to the point of eating their children)

But they are not under educated. Well they are highly literate, but not having access to high tech I suppose you are correct in your terminology .

Devils Son: that comment made no sense whatsoever. You trapped in a 1960's time warp? If anything, the plug works the other way, with 17 million starved, exhausted, abused North Korean civilians all trying to swim the Yalu River without getting machine-gunned by their own army. China wants a plug, all right...

bow2me, If North Korea suddenly collapsed and reunited under the South's government. All the Citizens of China would have to do is walk across the border to freedom or take a short swim.

Good! Let China take care of N Korea and leave the rest of the world out of it (hear that USA?)

Yup. Including the people at Activision who submitted a copyright complaint and got the video pulled from Youtube.

The fact that they can't do their own CGI makes them seem a little less scary.

video probably made with bootleged software anyway...

@Kenneth,

The scenery was from the Call of Duty videogame.

The fact that they can't do their own CGI makes them seem a little less scary.

Any tech person can tell you "You don't need to reinvent the wheel." Few North Koreans have US video games. It was as much for domestic consumption as anything else.

@Chris-749391 - Call of Duty: Modern Warfar 3

You are both correct.

There's a video game where one gets to attack NY skyscrapers? That's kind of offensive right there, given 9/11. I know about Call of Duty, of course.. but I didn't know it actually lets you attack American civilian targets. That's not really acceptable, for an American video game.

Learn how to reply to someone else's comment, rather than starting a new thread.

@hikeinmts,

The ONLY real reason that China is giving food aid and fuel oil to North Korea is that they fear that too much more starvation may actually incite riots that end up with hundreds of thousands of North Korean refugees in South China. They already have a substantial problem with this, but China is still the "Merchant Kingdon." It is cheaper to give NK a little foreign aid than it is to feed, clothe and house hunsdreds of thousands of poorly-trained, poorly-educated NK subsistence peasants. Malnutrition in NK has been so bad that the average North Korean is 15+ IQ points lower than the average South Korean.

Every country plays political "games" to some extent. This is pretty normal since each country seeks to emphasize only the side of issues that favors themselves. More reason than that is not necesssary.

hikeimts, you are so right, this is no laughing matter and China is the key. Unfortunetly far to many do not understand Chinas position. Or the seriousness of the current Korean situation because it has been a repeated scenario, over one issue or another, for most of their lives. That the sudden call of alarm, one day, just fades away to nothing of importance the next. Ignorance of Chinas concerns could result in a costly mistake for sure.

Far to many do not understand that no matter how crazy North Koreas actions are or how obvious it seems that China, is not/could not/should not, be in agreement with them, they must. That just as irrational as North Korea seems the relationship makes the Chinese position on issues just as mysterious. As China to North Korea is just like the relationship within a family, compared to an outsider. While you (North Korea) may be a fool and all your family (China) agree and say so. Heaven (not literally) help the outsider (any western ally) who dares to call you a fool in the presence of your family.

We can hope this is good news and the obvious choice for China. We still can not take this as okay with China to do as we please to North Korea without having to confront them also. Because no matter what threats North Korea may make, at the end of the day, China will always weigh having the little madman or the big bad west at their border and the flood of immigrants fleeing any military assault. Even when it seems to all the world, short of a continued military assault, what North Korea is doing can not be tolerated, any move without giving China the opportunity to reel in North Koreas aggression, China, for their own security will side with North Korea.

Until the day comes that China is more concerned having North Korea at their border than they fear western expansion. And make no mistake Chinas fear of western expansion is just as strong as the fear of spreading communism was to the US. It may not be any more rational but it is what makes us all shake our heads and ask how can China even consider supporting North Korea in such concerning actions. And why North Korea can get away with sinking ships and shooting missiles at (disputed) South Korean islands without an all out military response.

China will not tolerate the west at their border even if they are South Korean. So the fear of escalation and China having no choice but to insure a buffer zone against the west. Allows North Korea a great deal of tolerance that they are pushing the limits of. Our problem is figuring out if China is truly becoming feed up and takes action on their own or are they pulling the strings? A question of concern when all so looking at the tensions in the Pacific.

Actually, that's not true. All China can really do is cut off fuel and food shipments, and that might put it in the sights of the loonies running the DPRK.. including floods of refugees and possibly terror attacks.

China has no ability to invade a country that has a bigger army that it does, as many main artillery pieces, and a reputation for kamikaze warfare. North Korea can field 5-7 million trained soldiers, and the ability to draft three times that number, because it's entire society is basically run like a mobilized military corps. The Chinese PLA has, what, 94 divisions, about a third of which are actually combat ready?.. and China hasn't had a draft since.. ever. China might be able to put 300,000 boots into North Korea at a time, and there's huge street protests every time a single Chinese UN Peacekeeper comes home in a body bag.

This would be against a minimum of 5 million North Koreans and probably several times that many total armed defenders. Even with superior air and naval power, China would just find itself involved in its own version of Vietnam... right on its border.

It would take a combined multi-national force, led by both Chinese and American assets, to attack and hold territory in North Korea, and why would we possibly want to help the Chinese do that?

@maddy,

You are all that correct about the Sino-North Korean relationship. Some reasons I say that:

1) China and North Korea are linguistically and culturally as night and day. The two countries have never been more than the de facto relationship that would would expect to see between countries with a common border. China has never been more of an ally except to further China's own self-interest. In fact this is true of all countries that border on China. Look at the books for the past 100 or so years. China has been at war with Korea, Vietnam, India, Tibet, Pakistan, Burma, the USSR and more. These countries hate China for being a sort of "neighborhood bully"

2) China only helped North Korea in the Korean was because MacArthur's drive to the Yalu was pushing millions of refugees ahead of it. This was a burden that China was not willing to accept. So they intervened, not to destroy the UN forces, but just to drive them back to their starting place at the 38th Parallel. The seesaw nature of the Korean War really kept China in the dark about US intentions and goals in Korea. But the Chinese were very quick to pull out of Korea as soon as the Armistice was signed.

3) North Korea did not start out as a client state of China. At Yalta Stalin persuaded Churchill and FDR to divide the country and effectively make NK a client of the Soviet Union. Because the USSR had had so much trouble with Chinese military incursions, the Soviets saw it as useful to have a "friendly" country that abutted China. This remained so until the fall of the USSR. Kim Il-Sung was trained in the Soviet Union and they were the ones who put him into power and the country that supplied most of NK's foreign aid since 1953.

4) All these countries hate Japan about equally. Their common hatred of the Japanese, left over from the Japanese atrocities of WWII, would be about the only thing that might unite the Chinese and North Koreans in joint offensive military operations.

5) Most Americans do not realize that the Soviet Union dropped China as an ally like a hot potato after the Sino-Russian War in 1969. Until then, China had had little to no influence over North Korea and afterward there was still much more Soviet than Chinese influence until the dissolution of the Soviet Empire. These days neither Russia nor China have any interest in having close relations with North Korea --- they're just more trouble than they're worth.

6) The North Koreans are not considered part of the Chinese "family" because the cultures and language is so different. The same applies to Tibet and Vietnam etc. The only "family" China has like that is Taiwan which China considers a rogue state that is still a province (state) of China. None of the major Oriental powers --- China, Japan, Vietnam etc get along very well. Most of this is residual from the the Japanese atrocities of WWII. But if you had ever lived in the Far East you would realize that Chinese are "friends" only with Chinese.

7) The Chinese-North Korean Border is one of the most heavily guarded borders in the world. The Chinese do not want North Korean "mice" as refugees and shoot any who attempt to cross and the North Koreans also shoot at them. If they do manage to sneal into China and are caught, they are handed back to North Korea to be executed. Does that sound like North Korea is a puppet of China?

8) Much of the same rhetoric was spewed about Vietnam and China and how China was using Vietnam to somehow harass the US. In fact, the Vietnamese and Chinese are bitter enemies that have hated one another for centuries. Again, the Soviet Union was much more of an influence than China. In fact, the Sino-Chinese War of 1979 resulted in some serious kicking of Chinese butts who fled back over their border back into China.

9) It is hard to describe either the North Koreans or the Chinese as "irrational" since that implies a lack of reasoning ability or sound judgment on their parts. In fact, the North Koreans are cold, ruthless people who have been conducting a very high-stakes game of brinkmanship for 60 years and always winning.

10) China is supplying North Korea around $80 million in food aid. They stopped selling them fuel oil when North Korea dropped out of the Six-Party Disarmament Talks. They do not give North Korea any military aid. In international terms, this is a paltry amount at best.

11) The reason that North Korea can get away with thing like sinking the Chongnan is that in provocative incidents going back to the late 1950's neither the civilian leadership nor the military has ever been able to come up with a response that was acceptable. Every President since Truman has wrestled with the problem and not a single one ever came up with any workable retaliation or punishment.

12) Have you stopped to think about what would happen if a shooting war was begun in Korea? If there was the slightest bit of Chinese assistance or aid, the US would immediately stop interest payments on the debt held by China. That would immediately make the bonds worthless and plunge China into a serious depression --- much worse that the depression that hit Japan in 1990.

13) China already tolerates "western" powers at its border and has done so for centuries. And I have no idea where you got the hare-brained idea that China is afraid of "American expansionism." That's just foolish.

You know, it is ofter a better policy to not post long rants if you do not have any idea what you are talking about.

It would be better to wonder how, if NK is only a client state of China, and its leaders are only cartoon-like characters and its military is so inferior to ours, how it is that they sunk the Chongnan. This was a modern anti-submarine corvette on patrol and on alert in the Yellow Sea. It was sunk by an advanced diesel-electric sub with torpedos built by the North Koreans. These subs are coated with SONAR-absorbing coatings and can lie in the mud of the Yellow Sea or the Sea of Japan without surfacing. On several occasions North Korean subs have surfaced near Amnerican surface ships without being detected or having any warning. These are people to be taken very seriously. And on their own since there is no Sino-North Korean conspiracy as you seem to think.

I can't say that you're wrong since I have no proof, but that is contrary to what I know about the Chinese media.

Although subject to heavy censoring and government-friendly editors, it is my understanding that most of China's media organizations are privately owned.

SF, I to was under the same impression, all though independant in China will never mean the same to us. They are government friendly in that they must print what the government wants and are very limited when the government wants to limit the information or sway the information. But in risking life and limb some do sometimes stretch the government bull to truth and then pay for doing so.

Well, there's a subtle but important difference between "printing what the government wants" and "not printing what the government doesn't want to hear". As far as I know Chinese media is firmly stuck in the latter situation, getting to pen their own articles on topics of their choice but having them vetted by very conservative editors and government censors.

I could be wrong, though. The unclear relationship between the media and government in China is as much of a flaw as the explicit censoring. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many media outlets considered "independent" actually ran stories literally penned by government officials.

tromboner

I can't believe China thinks that it is alright for N. Korea to test a nuclear device. It could be used on them just as easily as on the USA. N. Korea's are nuts. They could do anything for their pleasure.

No, it could be used much more easily on China than on us. The problem for N. Korea is that without Chinese aid...they're screwed (starvation in biblical proportions). And no, China doesn't think it's all right. If they did, you wouldn't see an editorial like that in a Chinese paper. For years N. Korea has been useful as China's "bad boy". But like all bad boys, one day they become a liability (think Saddam Hussein, useful in the 80s...not so much in the 90s - 2000s) . We're witnessing the falling out.

i read it it that they Don't think its alright.

You are very naive - it means nothing.

Either they're naieve, or they understand geopolitics.

What makes you think that North Korea is China's puppet? Because China gives them critical aid? If it were that easy to bribe them into submission, there would be no conflict with NK; shovel a few billion dollars and crates of food into the country and they'd shut up and keep to themselves.

North Korea is EXTREMELY nationalistic, to the point that even the Chinese find them fanatical. That nationalism makes them hard to deal with even for China. If NK thinks China is starting to turn on them, it's unlikely they'll back down quietly.

True dat. And the Chinese nuclear arsenal makes North Korea's presumed weapons look like glorified catapults, to boot.

@SF accountant: I think that you're being disparaging of catapults!

Give me a break. China has no concern regarding US "expansion". They know as well as us that we can no longer afford "expansion". China doesn't need NK at all. In fact, they are a serious liability to China's goal to establish themselves as the #1 World Player. They're also not happy with the stream of starving Koreans crossing their border.

Both those things come with a political, diplomatic, and economic price, Quarant. It's not as simple as ranking one issue above the other. At one point the Chinese leaders are going to wonder exactly what they're giving up to prevent so-called US expansion, and wonder which country is a greater threat to their sovereignty and regional stability.

If anyone remembers any of my past comments on China's position in regard to North Korea's chest pounding pomposity, then they will remember that I had mentioned China's need to yank Pyongyang's chain. It seems that a finger has finally been pointed in junior blimp boy Kim Jung il's direction. The last thing China needs now is a Nuclear armed loose cannon at its doorstep while it's trying to show the world that it has come of age as a regional leader. The Neanderthal nature of the North Korean model is unwanted by today's China. The best case scenario from China's point of view (as I have said in the past) would be to invite the 'Bowl Cut' buffoon and his military leaders to a "Tea Summit" in Beijing and cap them all; move into North Korea; assimilate it while gaining even more strategic positioning on the Korean peninsula; open trade and invite investment and save what's left of the starving North Korean population while making themselves look (almost) like heroes. It would definitely benefit China.

I completely agree with your analysis of China's opinion toward NK, but I have to disagree with your "best-case scenario". China having to invade North Korea, an overgrown, highly militarized backwater mudhole, and then adminster it as a new territory full of underfed, uneducated, unproductive citizens (probably with a persisting nationalist rebellion to root out) is probably more like a second-to-worst-case scenario, narrowly beating out a nuclear missile flying off in the wrong direction and landing on Beijing.

The two reasons that China want North Korea to remain stable is to keep the American troops in South Korea away from their borders and to keep the North Koreans in North Korea so they don't have to deal with them. Annexing the country would defeat both those purposes while taking a considerable military toll on China.

China needs NK as a buffer from US expansion

Um... expansion WHERE? Buick is the hottest selling car in China right now, and they own 8% of all US Government debt.

Oh, and they're also fully aware that the last time the US took territory was over 110 years ago during the Spanish-American War.

@Whereswaldo,

The situation is a tad more complex than that. No one wants to "assimilate" North Korea, and it is really doubtful that anyone can. The South Koreans, especially the younger better-educated ones, are now moving toward the position that reunification and assimilation are not practical or perhaps even feasible.

They watched while Germany struggled to assimilare East Germany. East Germany's workforce was poorly-trained, poorly-educated, and had little to no work ethic or work habits. Their factories were vintage 1955 junk and the country was riddled with massive pollution problems. While Germanyb has not finished reintegration, it nearly has bankrupt them. Without the ability to use the ECC to effectively loot the economies of Greece, Italy and Spain, Germany would have been bankrupted by the effort.

North Koreans are even worse. NK does not have the ability to feed itself. It has no exports except for arms and illegal activities. Its industrial capacity, outside of the munitions industry, is early 1950's vintage and broken down. Even the munitions industry is pretty much late 1960's. As with East Germany, pollution is rampant and very, very serious. But worst of all are the North Korean people. They are far worse in job training and education that East Germany ever was. And widespread malnutrition has been so bad that the average North Korean is 15+ IQ points lower than the average South Korean. And if you only compared NK peasants to South Koreans it would be well over 20+ IQ goints.

So the idea of "assimilating" them is a silly pipe dream, though not nearly as stupid as "invite(ing) the 'Bowl Cut' buffoon and his military leaders to a "Tea Summit" in Beijing and cap(ing) them all." That one borders on sheer lunacy.

Chris, Ever read the book, "Nothing To Envy: Ordinary Lives in North Korea" by Barabara Demick ?

American's don't bother to learn their own history and geography, think they bother to learn anything about other countries?

Hey SF accountant, are you a CPA? A CMA?

@Angela,

Yep, read it. I read everything I can get my hands on about North Korea (and that's not much) because years ago I was a North Korean intelligence analyst. If anything the book is a little too upbeat and optimistic about North Koreans because it follows a half dozen people until they escape from the country. The vast majority of the people do not have that initiative or courage. They are either brainwashed to the point that they believe everything the leadership says or they are so beaten down that they don;t think at all.

I got to sit in on "interviews" of a number of captured North Korean "commandos" and that was very revealing to me. They were astounded at the quality of life in the South and were simply stunned that the South Korean people were not on the edge of a massive revolution to overthrow their government. After interrogations of these captured soldiers (about a year or so) they would simply give the guy a limo and a credit card and tell him to explore Seoul on his own for 12 hours. Most would not make it past the first shopping mall they entered. When they came back they were usually quite certain that evereything the North Korean government had told them was a lie. If they were "converted" they were allowed to become South Korean citizens after an involved process. If they were not 100% convinved they were executed as spies and buried in unbmarked graves to separate them from their families and ancestors forever.

I would bet that IF the Chinese decided to do whatever they felt needed to be done, they would do it. The North Korean military would put up a fight and the Chinese would most certainly overwhelm them. The South would most certainly get whacked if the PLA steps foot on North Korean soil. The mention that NK military support industry is 60's vintage is most certainly correct as is the fact that their logistical supplies and supply systems leaves much to be desired and would be overwhelmed in days.

China sees the need and feels the pressure to do something. That something is finger pointing and chastising at the moment. The last thing China needs, and it knows it, is a nuclear armed wannabe next door. China is very sensitive in regard to their appearance (now) on the world stage. To have a bipolar harbinger of destruction yanking on its coattails offends. At one time in China's history, it was probably considered a joke as the West postured with the buffoon's daddy and grand daddy, post Korean conflict. China wants to write its regions history and the North Korean government hasn't taken the hint yet. You can be assured that they will.

With North Korea's population approximately that of our state of Pennsylvania; Largely agrarian; large segments of the population actually dieing of starvation; Malnutrition; disease ridden and generally having their will to fight sucked right out of them, I doubt the folks with the wooden pitch forks, bare feet, bloated bellies, gum disease, rickets and the myriad of other ailments would help the fat slob and his well fed henchmen put up much of a fight. And as far as assimilating the North Koreans, they probably wouldn't have to. Just install whatever Chinese politician tasked supported by divisions of troops needed to retain control. Pop the brainwashed military leaders who fail the vetting. The world's do-gooders would stampede to NK with food; medical aid; agricultural help; Construction equipment and expertise; demilitarize the Korean borders and THAT would send the U.S. military packing in short order. Trade would blossom between the two and China would gain another superior advantage tactically and strategically with two shore lines on the North Korean peninsula, plus an 'atta boy' on the world stage. Junior blimp boy could run amusement rides (the rocket ship) at the new Disney in Pyongyang unless his native population gets their hands on him and he gets the Benito Mussolini treatment. Yes, China could look brilliant, but in the short term South Korea could get whacked, but I never cared for the people who really don't want us there in the first place........

Let the games begin!

...........and, oh yeah. I forgot the recent articles which mention the Chinese Military's apparent NEED to flex it's new found (stolen) military might. We seem to get to 'test' our equipment worldwide, on a regular basis and the bosses in the Chinese military feel that it's about time that they too, draw blood through war themselves.....KILL!....KILL!....KILL!......

....and just think, the stupid American 40+ year, CHRONIC trade imbalance made it all possible!

Your prayer rug isn't going to help. Why are you so frightened of these people? Are you familiar with the "little man syndrome"? That's what this is on a national scale. If either or both of them attacked the US the damage would be minimal (relatively speaking) while their entire nations would be utterly obliterated. One Ohio Class Nuclear Attack Submarine could rain down 96 nuclear warheads on them at any given time with about 5 minutes warning. We have 18 of those. Do you suppose we have a few off the Iranian and N. Korean coasts?

God doesn't manage our foreign policy, dude.

And Ol Doc is right: Iran and North Korea are little annoyances, throwbacks to much more dangerous times when there was a REAL threat of planetary annihilation via nuclear war. You think we're worse off now than during the Cold War? Ludicrous. I'll take the North Koreans over the Soviets any decade.

Too funny... God and prayer are exactly why Iran is a problem and they sound just like m-612920.

North Korea, on the other hand, is so isolated and ignorant they are just clueless about what they say.

SF accountant

You think we're worse off now than during the Cold War? Ludicrous. I'll take the North Koreans over the Soviets any decade.

Here's the weird thing about all the Iranian/NK paranoia; these are former Soviet satellite countries that we used to test our weapons systems on (as did the Soviets) by "encouraging" wars with other satellite countries. Now some paranoid individuals are trying to make them "archenemies". It's a little like sending Special Operations Command after "Fat Bastard" ("I want my baby back, baby back, baby back"). Folks, they are not in a class to be archenemies.

What does that mean? You really need to get specific. We already have extremely restrictive sanctions in place...what do you have in mind?

I think Igautt was referring to China, not the United States. China is much more forgiving with NK as far as those sanctions are concerned.

Perhaps SF, but I think the thrill is gone from that love affair. As I mentioned in another post, NK was China's "bad boy" and useful as such...enter the new world order with a possibility of China being a real world stage player...NK is now more trouble than they are worth. Especially since China has to feed starving NK refugees who cross the border.

Even the Chinese government doesn't speak with one voice. The will of a reporter who has the blessings of the party doesn't form or even reflect actual foreign policy.

The article addresses this: the paper's editorials don't necessarily reflect the official stance of the Chinese government.

SF accountant

No but it may indicate a significant shift in relations between Beijing and Pyongyang. If that story wasn't sanctioned...that is one future "disappeared" reporter.

In case you haven't noticed, the US ain't exactly "Adept" at influencing ANYBODY these days. Oh sure, we can send in a couple of armies and blow the Hell out of everything and destroy a country's entire military inventory, but to actually establish a government that represents the people instead of some petty wannabe puppet dictator...well we have no friggin' clue how to do that. Mainly we just F$%& things up even more and the people end up suffering for a couple of decades after. I guess that's why we're so popular in Pull Start Head country...

And what, exactly, does one have to do with the other?

Do you see China asking us to bring Israel under control?

It's not even that I disagree, that just seems so completely irrelevant to this article.

James Griffin-302437-330428

Wake up Cowboy...no one imposes a permanent government on an occupied nation successfully...no one. Considering the number of past empires, I'd say we are in good company.

no one imposes a permanent government on an occupied nation successfully...

Well, actually here's a very short and incomplete list off the top of my head. Some are still going on, by I'd call anything over two generations (40+ years) as being as close to permanent as one can home for.

1453 to present: Byzantium by Ottomans (that's 560 years and counting...)
1494 to 1820s: Whole of South America, by Spain & Portugal
1858 to 1947: India & Pakistan by UK
1898 to present: Puerto Rico by US
1898 to 1946: Philippines by US
1899 to 1938: China by the Eight Nation Alliance (US, UK, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Italy & Austria-Hungary).
1903 to present: Panama by US
1908 to 1960: Congo by Belgium
1945 to present: Japan by US
1945 to present: (West) Germany by US, UK & France
1945 to 1990 : Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Romania, Bulgaria, & Albania by USSR
1960 to present: Malaysia by UK

Japan is my favorite. That one actually worked out pretty well, huh?

Mark from Bridgeport

Direct rule is not exactly "nation building" now is it! Which one of those examples you cited tried to form a government to "represent the people"? In the final analysis, the only true influence one nation has ever had over another is force of arms, threat of force of arms, or economic pressure.

@Ol Doc: Direct rule is not exactly "nation building" now is it! Which one of those examples you cited tried to form a government to "represent the people"?
All I'm pointing out is that "some do manage to impose a permanent government on an occupied nation successfully." If you're invading, who cares about the will of the occupied people?

the only true influence one nation has ever had over another is force of arms, threat of force of arms, or economic pressure.
..What else actually matters when we're at that level?

Actually China has slowly been selling back the bonds. Most of what we owe we owe to ourselves. Get a grip dip. Try a little research before you come on here and prove you're an idiot.

Yeah, okay Einstein. Go back to counting your pennies in your piggy bank, you know NOTHING about finance. China OWNS us, idiot.

Explain to us how we "owe it to ourselves".....you need to leave the conversation to the adults, you twit.

Trouble, you don't seem to understand how national bond markets work.

Putting aside that Amused is correct - US citizens hold more government debt than China - the fact that we owe mind-boggling sums of money to China does not give them any sort of special leverage over us. As long as we can make the contracted payments on time (which we do), our obligations to China is fulfilled. We don't need to ask their permission for anything, much less to run our foreign policy as we wish.

You seem to be conflating our position with that of Germany in the EU, in which debtor nations are asking Germany for MORE money; were that the case, then that would provide the creditor nation leverage to ask for additional conditions. That is not the case with North Korea, and in fact the actions and intentions of the United States are very important in this geopolitical conflict.

I hope you found this information helpful. Have a nice day.

Actually, Amused is correct.

China has reduced its holdings from $1.31 trillion in June 2011 to $1.16 trillion in June 2012, which put them a shave above Japan at $1.13 trillion. All told, China owns about 8% of US debt, which is a considerable percentage but nowhere near "owning us".
And as the Chinese economy is cooling, there is a high probability that they will continue shedding T-Bills. After all, they wo;; need the money and the US interest rate is going to be held at zero for at least another couple of years.