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A click-through history of modern relations between the United States and China.
News analysis
BEIJING – It isn't only the U.S. presidential candidates who have had to withstand a verbal pummeling during the race -- China has been the subject of some of the most sustained attacks from Barack Obama and Mitt Romney, both of whom seem to be competing for who can be toughest on the world’s second-largest economy.
Romney has called China "a currency manipulator" and pledged to "crack down" on the country. Obama, meanwhile, has described China as an adversary, and said his administration was sending "a very clear message that America is a Pacific power and we are going to have a presence there."
In the final presidential debate, Mitt Romney says the country needs to get tough on China on currency manipulation and counterfeit products.
China was mentioned 32 times during the last presidential debate. This appeared to have prompted China's netizens, who tend to be younger and better educated than average, to take to online feeds in droves to watch Obama and Romney fight it out.
With its own seismic political transition in-the-works, reaction to American fighting talk has ranged from the philosophical to the plainly disinterested, a mood of suspicion replacing the euphoria that infected many young Chinese after Obama's election in 2008.
An October 17 editorial published by state-run news agency Xinhua called Obama and Romney’s China-bashing "a ritual" that "leaves Americans with the impression that China is responsible for their country’s decline."
"There are plenty of other U.S. politicians who have built their political popularity and career by chastising the Chinese government and its policies," another Xinhua editorial said. "U.S. politicians have a notorious record of rounding on China during election seasons and then quickly changing their course of action after taking office."
Full coverage: NBCNews.com's The World is Watching series
Despite the official and semi-official take on the race, many regular Chinese approached by NBC News said they weren't following the U.S. election -- an indication that issues like high inflation, rising property prices and a slowing economy have a more immediate impact on people's lives.
"I have no idea. It has nothing to do with me," 22-year old Liu Ziyu, a recent college graduate, told NBC News when asked who he would like to see win the race.
While the candidates are scrutinized and skewered by the media in the U.S., China's new leader Xi Jinping remains a man of mystery among his citizens. NBC's Ian Williams reports
Luan Ke, 23, an editor and journalist at a Beijing newspaper echoed a popularly held opinion when he said neither candidate would really change the relationship between the world's remaining superpower and an emerging power.
"I don't think there is any essential difference between the two," he said.
Much at stake for US as tensions rise in troubled China Seas
Luan and others pointed to a growing list of issues plaguing the Sino-U.S. relationship. The United States has accused China of undercutting American competitiveness and jobs by circumventing trade laws and undervaluing the yuan to help its exporters.
China has indeed kept its currency cheap by indirectly pegging the yuan to the dollar through the purchase of $1.15 trillion in U.S. bonds, making it the second largest holder of American debt after the Federal Reserve.
Also in this series: Israel, Iran name checks illustrate America's twin obsessions
But while this issue is frequently used to show Beijing's inordinate power over the American economy, most experts acknowledge that the risks go both ways: A unloading of U.S. bonds would likely cause the dollar to plummet in value, but at the same time send the yuan soaring, dramatically raising the price of its products internationally and possibly sparking skyrocketing inflation due to runaway commodity prices.
The Obama administrations' three rounds of quantitative easing -- the act of injecting currency into the money supply – has angered Chinese policy makers because it devalues the dollar and makes its products more expensive internationally.
Also in this series: Should next US president treat Russia as friend or foe?
The two countries have also been involved in a tit-for-tat trade spat. The Obama administration has won international rulings on trade issues ranging from the dumping of Chinese tires to cheap steel on the American market. In return, China has countered with its own protective tariffs on American auto parts and chicken feet.
Meanwhile, the United States' re-engagement with the Asia-Pacific region – dubbed a "pivot" by the White House – comes as China transforms itself into a modern and confident fighting force. Territorial regional disputes have become hot-button issues for China, which Beijing is increasingly unafraid to push back on.
China brings its 1st aircraft carrier into service, joining 9-nation club
Throughout the campaign, Chinese state media has reminded viewers and readers of the chasm that often exists between American candidates' rhetoric and their policies once in office. For example, in 1992, candidate Bill Clinton pummeled President George H.W. Bush for dealing with China's ruling Communist Party, whom Clinton famously dubbed the "butchers of Beijing."
Just eight years later, candidate George W. Bush accused lame duck president Clinton of being soft on China, slamming him for declaring Beijing "strategic partners."
Despite the knowledge that American campaign rhetoric often doesn't match the reality once a president is in office, observers have been keeping a close eye on the U.S. campaign trail and the changing relationship between the two countries.
A congressional investigation says Chinese tech giant Huawei Technologies is a national security threat; its equipment may be used for spying on Americans. CNBC's David Faber has the details of the investigation, and CNBC's Jon Fortt takes a look at wh...
"America's refocus and return to the Asia-Pacific region has brought increased challenges to the Sino-U.S. relationship," Zhang Guoqing, a researcher at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences' Institute of American Studies, told NBC News. In particular, there is growing anger and frustration at what is seen as obstructionism on the part of the Obama administration, which is blocking high-profile industrial firms like Huawei and Sany from investing in strategic industries like energy and telecommunications.
Also in this series: Despite bloodshed, Mexico is ignored during White House race
Despite American efforts to re-label the pivot as a "rebalancing" of its diplomatic and economic resources as well as its military ones, China’s attention has largely focused on the U.S. shift militarily. So suspicion of the United States’ changing role in the region has run rife on Beijing’s streets.
More China coverage from NBC News' Behind the Wall blog
"(The United States) might suppress China and prevent it from being the boss in Asian-Pacific region," Chen Huaijie, a 32-year old voice-over artist for a Chinese state broadcaster, told NBC News.
Regardless of who wins next week, expect China to approach the president-elect warily but, given the country’s growing prominence on the world’s stage, confidently.
NBC News’ Li Le and Yanzhou Liu contributed to this report.
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- Analysis: Israel, Iran name checks illustrate America's twin obsessions
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Leave a Comment:
politicians have a notorious record of rounding on China during election seasons and then quickly changing their course of action after taking office."
Well this is no lie..How is that Hope and Change working out for you folks?
We have perfected the art of blaming someone else for the mess created by our own. Forget China, our focus first and foremost should be on rebuilding the nation, the economy, infrastructure, fixing pressing social issues, education, health etc. Getting people back to work, that’s what we have to focus on. All the rest, including China, will take care of itself.
China might not be responsible for America's decline; but is certainly the biggest beneficiary of that decline.
And the rich got richer because of China.
The rich only get what you give them, They are not taking your money you are giving it to them, If you do not refuse to buy that latest iPhone or xbox or pair of designer jeans or any other product that does not carry a made in the US label then you are contributing to your own demise.
Romney criticizes China on currency manipulation...
Of course he does, that makes it harder for him to export jobs to China and still get the same profit margin
Let me tell you were already a power in the Pacific. Beefing up our forces in the Pacific region has been in the plans for a long time, not really election related. We must protect many of the "micro islands" that live freely and happily in these far off places, and we will. Also keep China in check.
China steals and copies much of the worlds technology. eg They stole our stealth technology in a cloak and dagger deal in Hawaii. Although they have had it for decades they are only just beginning to get prototypes (and some maybe in use by now) off the ground,lol
@lostinthepine;
I am all with you on the buy American first, and I do my best. Can you sit there and tell us that you do not buy or use anything made in China? The last time this was brought up here,not many could say that they did not use or buy anything from China within a weeks time.
If you really want to blame someone try the people the negotiated the first trade agreement with China after WWII. They were the ones that started the mostly one sided trade agreements that benefited China. China had been invaded by the Japanese and we were trying to help them out. We agreed to it, why did you not have a problem with it back then?
China has been doing better about evening out the unfair trade agreements, but like all humans they like a position of power. Pretty sure in 2010 they renegotiated with the U.S. and there has been a bunch of WTO disputes since then, all done by Obama and team. They could still be better, but China is willing to compromise since they know they have had a good deal. How many good deals on oil did the U.S. take advantage of? How many puppet dictators did we support to get cheap oil all to the detriment of the citizens in those countries? Are there any "free" trade agreements that we are working on that do not include China? I wonder why.
"The Obama administrations' three rounds of quantitative easing -- the act of injecting currency into the money supply – has angered Chinese policy makers because it devalues the dollar and makes its products more expensive internationally." It also pisses off rich people too. If only we did not have to pay interest to the Federal Reserve each time we printed money. If only we gave that new money to the people on the bottom and not the top. Instead of trickle down it has been a vacuum up economy, where one group at the top sucks up all the money.
So now China is apart of our election debate"what next" Fact is our companies don't belong there its just a front to get cheap labor. We've been in the manufacturing business for 100 yrs and more, we know what it takes to deliver a quality, safe, nontoxic product they don't, they want to make a copy but the copy is genuine crap..
We should immediately revoke China's most privileged nation trade status - awarding that to China was a criminal insanity that ruined our country. Screw China - we don't need their cheap toxic garbage they produce!
Coral, No I can not and I will not but I will tell you that I will go out of my way to look for and purchase American made goods whenever possible, I will even purchase a good used American made item over a new imported item, All of my tools are made in the USA, All of our dishes and pottery are made in the USA, Much of my work clothing is either made by my wife or purchased from a small store that specializes in made in USA products, Whenever we go out grocery shopping we look at the produce,cans,packages and purchase USA grown products,All the foods for our livestock and pets are USA made/grown My computer has many parts that were made in China and other countries but it was custom built by a local shop here in the USA by US citizens, I do not have an iphone or xbox or Wii, My vehicle are both domestic brands made mostly from US made parts.
I do not mind paying more for a made in the USA product because I know that by doing so I am helping keep another American employed and when I help keep another American employed that money stays in this country.
Tired, China is not our friend. They are using us and allowing us to dig our hole by loaning us money. They think more than 4 or 8 years ahead, where we change policies and leaders every 4 to 8 years. China has a long term plan for us and when we figure out what that plan is, we won't like it. We are being fools by borrowing such huge sums of money from the Chinese government.
Here is a truthful example of how China thinks long term. A few years ago, China wanted to corner the television market here in the U.S. so they decided to make televisions and sell them to us cheaper than they could make and ship them here. China lost money on each and every tv set for many years. The reason: to corner the television manufacturing market in the U.S. and drive U.S. television makers out of business. It worked like a charm and every U.S. television manufacturer went out of business because they could not compete and China did indeed corner that market and they now sell us televisions at a profit. Today, we have one television manufacturer in the U.S. that recently opened after all the others went bankrupt and uses 100% U.S. made parts with 100% U.S. labor. China thought ahead long term. Read this article for further details, it's a real eye opener:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/china/trade.html
True.
And wtf does that statement do to illustrate your comment above? You started out on the right foot only to stick the left one in your mouth soon after.
Do try and troll somewhere else. You're not all that good at it.
@lostinthepines;
I did not think so. We do need more people like you though that go that extra mile or spend a couple more bucks to keep it in America.The reality is that we rely on China for "cheaper products". Let me warn you of one product to look fOR the "made in China" label, and avoid,that is dog products and treats. I Make sure my products here are American.
Be a REAL job creator - BUY AMERICAN!
"Well this is no lie..How is that Hope and Change working out for you folks?"
It's kinda working - we keep hoping things would change. :)
Bainport.com Another business Romney is moving over to China and firing the workers here just a week before christmas. Yes america, republicans more than spend their money on chinese, they reap their profits off them as well.
7 trade disputes against China in the past four years, most of which have been won:
http://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/dispu_e/dispu_status_e.htm
And a bunch of other things that you can easily find by typing "obama accomplishments politifact" into Google.
Since everything we buy is made in China, or a key part is, if we get too pushy with China they could shut our economy down (poor Walmart) and cripple our military. No more Iphones!!! We owe them trillions, they hold all of the cards.
wtw:
Uh, China owns most of our debt. I think they are bit entwined with the US? Do you know the Chinese Anthem?
Romney/Ryan for a Strong America
Lost:
Precisely. Walmart is always under attack, but I know of no-one telling Walmart to please raise their prices to make it fair for all and to pay Union salaries.
Consumers, you can't have a 99 cent pair of pants, and pay the check out person, $30/hour with $20/hour benefits.
No-one is forcing anyone to shop at Walmart. But, boy those prices are attractive.
Romney/Ryan 2012
The problem with Made in America anymore is that you still have many of the "raw materials" (including fabrics) coming from third-world countries and being used in those Made in America items. The term often only means "Assembled in America" and that is part of our downfall. US, China, and India combined now deplete 75% or more of the world's natural resources. How much longer can we keep doing that? Most of those natural resources (at last in terms of minerals, ores, fossil fuels, etc.) are finite. As the world/US population continues to grow, we put even more strain on Mother Earth. Survival of the fittest may kick in again real soon for the human population and we will see even more wars.
Because Beijing is watching, and watching closely...
Updated as of 11:00am EST on Friday, November 2 (Final pre-election Jobs Report day!):
Real Clear Politics (RCP) consistently has been the go-to source for accurate averaged daily polling data for both FOXNEWS and NBCNEWS. With only 85 hours left to go in the 2012 presidential campaign, RCP continues to report Obama leading in eight of their 11 toss-up states with Romney leading in three.
In descending order of 'percentage of lead' in favor of Obama, followed in ascending order of 'percentage of lead' in favor of Romney, here are the published averaged numbers from RCP as of 11:00am EST together with the most recent FiveThirtyEight election night probabilities of victory for either candidate:
In WISCONSIN, with 10 electoral votes, Obama's lead has jumped to 5.0%, up from 3.7% this morning. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Obama a 91.2% chance of victory here, up by a significant 5.5% from Tuesday.
In PENNSYLVANIA, with 20 electoral votes, Obama's lead is holding at 4.6%. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Obama a 96.2% chance of victory here, up by 2.0% from Tuesday.
In MICHIGAN, with 16 electoral votes, Obama's lead is holding at 3.0%. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Obama a 98.6% chance of victory here, up by a slight 0.5% from Tuesday.
In NEVADA, with 6 electoral votes, Obama's lead has risen to 2.7%, up from 2.4% yesterday. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Obama an 87.7% chance of victory here, up by an astonishing 8.0% from Tuesday.
In OHIO, with 18 electoral votes, Obama's lead today settled at 2.3%. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Obama an 80.5% chance of victory here, up by a substantial 7.2% from Tuesday.
In IOWA, with 6 electoral votes, Obama's lead has settled at 2.0%, up from 1.3% yesterday. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Obama a 78.8% chance of victory here, up by a significant 4.9% from Tuesday.
In NEW HAMPSHIRE, with 4 electoral votes, Obama's lead has risen to 2.0%, up from 1.3% yesterday. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Obama a 77.8% chance of victory here, up by a substantial 7.5% from Tuesday.
In COLORADO, with 9 electoral votes, Obama's lead has risen to 0.9%, up from 0.5% yesterday. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Obama a 64.6% chance of victory here, up by an astonishing 9.2% from Tuesday.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
In VIRGINIA, with 13 electoral votes, Romney's lead has risen to 0.5%, up from Tuesday's tie. Interestingly, FiveThirtyEight increased Obama's chance of victory here, and NOT Romney's, to 66.4%, up by an astonishing 8.2% from Tuesday.
In FLORIDA, with 29 electoral votes, Romney's lead has fallen to 1.2%, down slightly from Tuesday's 1.3%. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Romney a 55.1% chance of victory here, down by an astonishing 9.6% from Tuesday.
In NORTH CAROLINA, with 15 electoral votes, Romney's lead has risen to 3.8%, up from Tuesday's 3.0%. FiveThirtyEight currently gives Romney an 80.0% chance of victory here, down by a slight 0.2% from yesterday.
So...
In order for Obama to win re-election the least complex route would be through maintaining his current lead in the five toss-up states where his existing margins are widest (Wisconsin at 5.0%, Pennsylvania at 4.6%, Michigan at 3.0%, Nevada at 2.7%, and Ohio at 2.3%). Doing so would bring his electoral vote total on Election Day to 271. In this scenario, Obama could still surpass 270 while failing to hold Iowa, New Hampshire, and Colorado.
However, should Obama fail to hold Ohio, the loss could effectively be neutralized by any of the following combination of wins from states where FiveThirtyEight is currently forecasting Obama victories:
Path #1: Obama loses Ohio but wins the remaining three states where he currently leads, Iowa, New Hampshire, and Colorado resulting in 272 electoral votes.
Path #2: Obama loses Ohio but steals Virginia while also taking New Hampshire, Iowa, OR Colorado resulting in 270, 272, or 275 electoral votes, respectively.
Interestingly, with Romney's lead having diminished significantly in Florida over the past two weeks and with Hurricane Sandy forcefully highlighting the stark contrast between the candidates regarding the value and necessity if not the mere existence of FEMA in a state which has perhaps the greatest dependence on federal storm relief efforts in the nation, a 3rd path has now emerged which could provide for some interesting election night television:
Path #3: Obama comes from behind to win Florida. This scenario would require only that Obama win the three states in which his present leads are widest (Wisconsin at 5.0%, Pennsylvania at 4.6%, and Michigan at 3.0%), resulting in 276 electoral votes.
For Romney to unseat Obama, he not only would have to hold the three states in which he presently leads, Florida, North Carolina, and Virginia bringing his electoral vote total to 248, but also steal victories in both Colorado where Obama's lead rose today to 0.9% and in Ohio where Obama's lead settled today at 2.3%. By so doing, Romney's electoral vote total would reach 275.
Should Romney fail to steal Ohio he could overcome this shortfall by capturing the four other states in which Obama's current leads are smallest (Colorado at 0.9%, New Hampshire at 1.3%, Iowa at 2.2%, and Nevada at 2.7%) resulting in an electoral vote total of 273.
FiveThirtyEight this morning estimates the chance of Election Day victory for each candidate as follows: Obama 80.9% (up from yesterday's 79.0%) and Romney 19.1% (down from yesterday's 21.0%).
FiveThirtyEight now also projects that on Election Day the final electoral tally will be as follows: Obama 303 (up by 4 from Wednesday's 299) and Romney 235 (down by 4 from Wednesday's 239).
Lastly, although it makes no difference in terms of the final result which can only be determined by the Electoral College, FiveThirtyEight currently predicts a national popular vote distribution on Election Day as follows: Obama 50.5% (up from Wednesday's 50.4%) and Romney 48.4% (down from yesterday's 48.6%).
With only 85 hours of campaigning left, the October jobs report (released this morning to mixed reviews) and an avalanche of related economic information may provide the final bits of information to voters who've chosen to hold out to the very last.
Sorry, just noticed that my keyboard did not register the "e" in "least"...at least in terms...
Lost,
There are many, many very outstanding rich people who are very good and kind-hearted people who do so much to help those who have fallen on hard times. However, it is the extremely greedy and corrupt rich who are largely responsible for China's emergence of strength and wealth. These extremely greedy and corrupt rich are so crazed for more of everything especially profit that they have even refused to pay American workers an American wage based on the American high cost of living and instead have relocated those American jobs for products mainly to be sold in America to third world countries and especially to Communist China mainly to take advantage of and make a huge profit from the incredibly low wages they can pay workers there.
Then there is the other problem of the US trying too hard to control the rest of the world, and the expense caused by that is killing this country. Both Democrats and Republicans are responsible for feeding this horrible beast. This problem has been rampant since World War II, now with an American military presence in nearly 200 countries, and the US financially supports the militaries and even the governments of so many countries. This cannot be sustained; it is financially impossible, and the over-extended military and political and military meddling everywhere in the world is creating more enemies and problems for the US in addition to the hideous debt it causes that is crippling our economy and endangering our fiscal survivor.
The most important thing the US needs to do is greatly reduce the US military foreign presence and quit trying to micro-manage the world governments. The US currently spends more on its military then the next 20 highest-spending-on-military countries, and this is greatly driving our debt of which much is to China. The US needs to focus on protecting the US and the freedoms of the US and doing so in ways as financially efficiently as possible.
The borrower is a slave to the lender, and it is not smart in any way to anger our slave master, China, even through the meaningless babbling of politicians in a heated election.
"They are using us and allowing us to dig our hole by loaning us money."
Where have you been Marshall, they stopped loaning us money a while back. They told the U.S. government that there was no way they could pay back what they already owe them, but the government kept pushing them for more loans, and China finally told them, that enough was enough, and stopped the loans. And by the way, no one held a gun to the governments head and forced them to take the loans, it was the government who went to them for the loans. China got sick of it.
Revision to above the last paragraph should say.
The borrower is slave to the lender, and it is not smart to anger our slave master, China, even through the meaningless babbling of politicians during a heated election. However, China is a slave master in more ways than one, and the oppression of the Chinese citizens by the Communist government and the lack of so many important freedoms in China will eventually sink communism in China as it did in the Soviet Union without any outside intervention.
For those blaming Romney and Bain for moving every job to China, consider you own parties actions.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40565987/ns/business-going_green/t/wind-their-backs-powerful-democrats-help-chinese-energy-firm-chase-stimulus-money/#.UJPpBLS5IcM
Also consider that you, the consumer, has more to do with jobs going to China than any corporation or politician. You had the opportunity years ago to say no to cheap inferior imports, and you didn't. You're more responsible for the current situation than Romney and Bain!
Hahaha now China doesn't "Trust" US? Hahaha......Even PBS doesn't....So you shouldn't either!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l-8PFk8j5I
Obomney / Byan 2012......$1,000,000,000 Wall Street Controlled....Guaranteed!
America Just Say No To The Great Repression!
"Doublethink means the power of holding two contradictory beliefs in one's mind simultaneously, and accepting both of them." ~ George Orwell, 1984
I like many of you have bought and own many Chinese products in the past but personally the last several years I've made a point to check labels before buying prducts and if it isn't made in USA I simply won't buy it.
Our company Just Swing It has engineered, developed, manufacturers and sells products made by American families. Our company could benefit greatly, 30% higher profit margins if we simply allowed China to make our parts and and sell us our materials but in the long run we all end up paying more. I trust other Americans will do the same and make the choice to only buy USA made products.
Buying USA products alone would jump start our economy so I encourage you all to buy only American made products and business owner please follow the example of Just Swing It and do the right thing and create jobs here for the American people and trust your profit margins will soon follow as you help millions of families out there. God bless the USA!
ItsBenghaziSandymanToRescue banned, rereg of multiple accounter Nobozospeak.
Independent T….1.20
I speak 5 languages fluently; unfortunately Chinese is not one of those, but I do recognize their anthem when I hear it. After all, we all heard it umpteen times during the London 2012 Olympics.
Nevertheless, I do agree with your “Romney/Ryan” sentiment.
"hows that hope and change working out for you?"
Well honestly 4 years out I am still thankful of the change. And hope? As long as we can keep from going back to the republican policies that tanked the economy, I will stay hopeful.
Don't listen to what Romney say's to find out how he'd be as presiident, read Ryans budget plan. Here's a speech by Grover Norquist stating what they expect from Romney if elected.
Romney will do everything in his power to increase prices to us and increase interest rates so he and his rich friends will earn more money while sitting around doing nothing with their wealth. Romney cannot wait to eliminate Obamacare and further put 99% of us in dire straights when it comes to affordable healthcare. As it is today, 99% of us cannot afford good healthcare and when Mitt screws it up as POTUS it can only get worse, not better. Sure, Mitt will cut the costs of running the federal government but think about it, how much does the federal government directly cost you? Can you convince a three year old that those decrease in costs will somehow trickle down to you? If you believe that, I got a '70 Ford Pinto to sell you.
You are right but I have to ask, why is it Ryan is not a winner in Janesville, Wisconsin his hometown? Why is it he does not do much campaigning in Wisconsin? For that matter why is it Mitt is gonna lose Massachusetts? I think the voters in these areas know much more about R&R than most of us.
By your logic, we should look to Biden to judge Obama's Plans:
Stimulus -- "Even if we do everything tight, if we do it with absolute certainty, there's a 30% chance we'll get it wrong."
Administration -- "Hillary Clinton is as qualified or more qualified than I am to be Vice President of the United States."
Diversity -- "You cannot go to a 7-11 or a Dunkin Donuts unless you have a slight Indian accent."
- Pure leftist nonsense. In 2008 when gas prices topped $4 /gal, the left kept saying "it's just because Bush and his rich oil buddies can make more money".
Ironically, when gas prices went up under Obama, the left then says "the president can't control gas prices. It is driven by market forces and demand."
The fact is that in a free country, it's none of your business what someone does with their wealth. Only suckers buy into the idea that government needs to dictate every move made by citizens. That brings on tyranny, and that's not liberal at all.
denver bill 2 - did you even read Larry's comment or did you just read the first line and decide to respond? Because he was very clear about why Romney would be ineffective and it would be Ryan's policies that go into effect. And frankly, that terrifies me.
I did read the comment. Did you? The first sentence, which I quoted in my response, says to read Ryan's budget plan to know how Romney would govern. That is not only unclear, but patently ridiculous. Everything else Larry posted was a quote from Grover Norquist, which has even less bearing on how Romney would govern.
Sally Lu,
Agreed. And Ryan's policies should terrify everyone.
In both his bills, he proposes massive increases in military spending which will greatly add to the federal deficit/debt.
He and Romney have vowed not to increase taxes to pay on the deficit/debt that is crippling the US economy or to pay on the huge recent Repub-war debts, especially for those who can afford to pay them the most, including those rich job providers to third-world and communist countries who have have helped strengthen China.
Ryan proposes in both his bills, especially his budget bill passed in 2011, to essentially eliminate the ability to pay for healthcare for most future seniors through his privatizing of Medicare to private insurance companies who can once again price most future seniors out of the healthcare market (as they did before Medicare was started) because they do not want to pay for the many age-related diseases and conditions of seniors.
Ryan's bills propose drastic slashing of funding for the food stamp and Medicaid programs which will so badly harm the most vulnerable US citizens (poor children, handicapped citizens and seniors) and the healthcare providers who want to help them, and so on.
Obama's policies are not perfect, and some need fixing (specifically, the effects of the insurance mandate on businesses and job creation), but Obama's policies are much superior to those of Romney/Ryan in so many ways and for more than 90% of American citizens, and citizens are the country.
And, of course, Ryan and Romney propose to totally eliminate the ACA which will leave the millions uninsured and harm not only them but the healthcare providers who want to help them and all Americans indirectly. Many of the uninsured are older but not currently old enough for Medicare and have many serious health conditions that private insurance without the ACA will not cover at all or that the premiums private insurance without the ACA will charge will be far too expensive for those people to afford, and this will greatly hurt those uninsured people and the healthcare providers who want to help them. In addition, this will hurt the US economy in general when healthcare providers are forced to pass on the unpaid bills of the uninsured to those who can pay and thus further inflate healthcare costs. And remember, the healthcare industry is the private employer who probably employs the most Americans currently.
Both countries are on a path to self-destruction, the U.S. economically and as a consequence of it's imperialism and exploitation of much of the world, and China (as well as India) because of it's rapid industrialization and growth that is neither well thought out nor sustainable.
As for American politicians blaming China, it's just a smokescreen to keep the sheep from paying attention to the real problems and crimes that are committed by the wealthy elites who run this country.
With presidential candidates chastising China the way Obama and Romney did, no wonder a great number of americans are ignorant enough to believe China is responsible for US decline.
Heinrich
I can follow your belief a bit, but if it wasn't for the products that the Chinese manufacture, prepare and send to the US, the American people would not pay attention to those points from the candidates.
The Chinese made dry wall that has hazardous materials/mold, the baby formula that has poisonous materials, the pet food/treats that have killed numerous pets, even the electronic items such as computers that have been found to have tracking devices and "shut down" switches in them when given a remote command - these are the instances - plus the fact that the dollar debt to the US from that the Chinese loans are being used to persuade voters to recognize that the $16 Trillion debt cannot be repaid within one generation and the kids, maybe the grand kids of this generation will be responsible for it too.
Xenophobia is sometime used in dire times. I am not defending it, just explaining the rationale.
So don't buy that stuff, but on the other hand, they made most of the Apple products, a lot of furniture sold at high end stores, lots of remote control stuff...the list is long as to what it does right.
There has only been one VERY brief period (about three years if I remember correctly) in the early 1800's when the federal government (as well as state governments) hasn't had "huge" debts (in relation to the GDP/currency value). The main problem is that since the 60's, the US (and other parts of the world) have continually added to that debt with no hope of paying it off. Too many individuals have gotten themselves into the same boat, and part of that debt clock is not just federal government debt, but TOTAL US debt...including all consumer debt.
@Jeff34781 You had me with you right up 'til you mentioned the wealthy elite....
China has acted like a big baby..all of a sudden. Keep watch it will not last long. A kid will always be scared by the big guy. Good thing we have tested all our assets on real stuff. China it will be a shell shock!
i guess its a good thing China looks at political grandstanding for what it is. As we all know China has been building it's navy, meantime Obama compairs it to "times of horses and bayonets" and even tho i am no military advisor or anything special, i do see where it could become a possible threat for our homeland directly. Who actually seriously thought Japan was a threat?
i also think it would have been better for America to work out its own mess it got it's self into. Getting a payday cash loan from a "pal" might seem like a good idea, untill you cant pay it back. the more the amount, the more sour the diffrences, and we didnt get a drop in the hat $5-%10.00.
As for as well, NObama referring to China as an adversary, and Romney to it as a economic cash sow, cash sow is a little more relaxed, and realistic, than tossing idle threats. We already showed our tale ro Russia when they basically took it over, and waited for us to be a no show. grant it that WAS Bush, but exspect the same from NObama. as far as Romney goes in that stance.. have to see. i just know the guy in the oval office at this minute, plans to cater to Russia on nukes, and has bow'd to China as a softie. bad tiers? poison lace kids toys, milk for babies, dog treats, dog food, and who knows what else. China makes it look like a crack down, only cause the company was caught screwing us to the point with cheap unregulated crap that doesnt go to their country from my understanding, or any other from world news understanding either, WE get this crap. if some other country is getting it too, well forgive me for not seeing it. rather beat a war drum, i would rather hear lets work on playing fair... or else. sanctions, default, and what have you can be a better means of breaking unwanted legal ties forcing our country to kiss anothers backside with tounge, and a tickle of the whiskars. if that fails.. well then break out the tom-tom's and rattle what ever.
and the people directly responsible for the American decline, are the ones who buy an item "Made in China" on it.
Hint #1: If you dont BUY IT, they dont make money on it. if they dont make money, THEY go out of buisness.
remember that when you buy something in the store.......
Good Post Naughty Mossy
especially, "if we don't buy it ...
If and when Mitt wins and he tries to put a hurt on China you can bet your bottom dollar you and I will pay for it because our cost for everything imported from China and the Orient will skyrocket and will be passed on to all of us at a time when 99% of us can least afford it.
That makes absolutely no sense. Why would prices skyrocket? If they were to skyrocket because our new president Romney put the "hurt" on China, as you say...that would be because they are presently abnormally low due to currency manipulation. If they skyrocket without currency manipulation...China is simply slitting their own throat by making "emotional" financial/economic policies.
Chances are, nothing will happen...just that China would realize we now have a POTUS that will hold them accountable. They'll realize that the party is over and it's time for them to play fair.
When Romney is elected, he will create jobs and strengthen our economy. That strength is exactly what is needed to right the ship. China will have no control over us when they have been paid back what we owe them. As long as we are in debt to them, they'll control us.
Romney/Ryan 2012! Vote against the community-organizer-n-chief like the future of our country depends on it! AND IT DOES!
If you continue to buy from China you will be helping us how??? You want American Jobs buy American. Obama's socialism will fail that much quicker.
Rocky -
I agree to only buy American, Good Luck! Just about everything out there comes from China or elsewhere except the US. Just because one avoids shopping at Walmart and buys at Sears or True Value does not mean it was made in the US.
I have done my part to bring a job back home - I took out my retirement savings (Took a big hit on Tax penalties instead of losing it to Big Wall Street investors) and am starting my own manufacturing business. I know that everything I make can be made cheaper elsewhere, but I will make it built to last - not fall apart as you unpack it from a damaged box because it is so cheaply made.
I have purchased over $50,000 on various tools and consumables and although I tried to buy US and buy Local, I could not purchase the majority of things in either event.
Mitt says he will be tough on China but that is just him saying he will and will not be.
Obama says he will be tough on China but the Republican Congress & Senate will not let him.
We need to elect the Independent Party and force Congress and the Senate to work more together to address our country's problems with the president.
I'm sure with 47,000,000 on food stamps, and 23,000,000 unemployed, buying made in the USA, which is 4 or 5x more expensive, is at the top of their list. Ha!
They are worried about affording $4/gallon gasoline for their car and purchasing food which is now beyond most budgets.
Change in leadership is paramount for the US.
Romney/Ryan for a Strong America
see, i remember back when i was a kid, and zenith, as well many other manufacurers went went "plop" on their face. even said it back then why. we were buying from China and Japan, because the stuff was cheaper than American made, with quality and dependability not being much different. i think the 90 day return policy played a role in it as well, meant to help keep Americans producing, however it made buying crap from other countries cheaply crafted easier.
limiting return policy on over seas/borders merchandise to 30 days, meantime keeping American returns the same, or even exstending 15-30 days would make a difference mostly in the American jobs favor, also creation of new buisness. our country is very "wanting" when it comes to customer service, and will always choose the best deal. 90 day warranty, vs 15-30 day warranty... i'd go American for a few bucks more. but that was the problem as well. cost.
Problem we have now is many times, there is no higher priced American made product available. I look where made prior to purchasing. Last time I did this, there were 3 products to choose from...2 made in China and 1 from Taiwan. I chose the lesser evil and went with the one made in Taiwan.
It'll take time but I'm sure president Romney will bring manufacturing back to the USA...
Romney/Ryan 2012!
"It'll take time but I'm sure president Romney will bring manufacturing back to the USA..."
That has to be one of the funniest (and most delusional) comments I have ever seen on these boards. Ever. Seriously, are you out of your mind? Romney would take every single job in this country and ship it overseas if it meant a buck in his pocket.
If you were joking, as I hope you were, I apologize. Otherwise, thanks for the laugh.
you see, all our goverment does is regulate. it doesnt create jobs other than for infastructure, defence and so on. problem is we pay for it (the taxpayer) and pay dearly. we keep the union workers going. the government does take bids from private buisness when it comes to infastructure, defence, and other manufactured product, but when a company makes a fair bid, its laways labor cost/rework that kills on over run. we the taxpayer pay for that as well.
@Jeff,
you realise, you just made a comment that contradics itsself? Romney, at least has a plan to bring back manufacturing, rather than ship it, or, bring its employees here to do it for us. windmills/windfarms would be a very good exsample.
if the plug was pulled where i work, i wouldnt be in the least bit suprised. realistically, i dont thing any one person where i work would be. fight to save there jobs at the picket line? perhaps. i go to work to work. if i dont like where i work, i have np in knowing where the door is. np in putting a resume out there in the meantime either. with luck i can be back in a private industry, pay is as good or in some cases better. i know where my $ being taken from my check is going. i am not anti union mind you, just union policy in the majority.
Jeff...
Move over liberals and let real professionals take over. Romney knows business...Obama knows government. Big difference.
Let me ask you, what has Barry done to bring manufacturing back to this country? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Now, are you going to blame the party of "No"?
No Jeff, you liberals are the funny ones. Let's all get together in one big "circle-jerk" and sing Kumbuya...
Romney/Ryan 2012! Vote for the professionals!
romney has a proven buisness record, and after he left the one he was running, they shipped jobs. as an investment/share holder, it isnt his call 100% to ship a job over seas, that managements. and as far as romney making the final call, i kind of doubt that would be even close to the case of him being "responsible" for that to take place.
cantakenomore,
We want someone who knows government, not a businessman who will treat this country like it is his own company. Capitalism only works if it works for all the people and not just a small minority who makes the most while working the least. Everytime Obama comes up with an idea that might work for us, he gets filibustered by the Republican majority in Congress. They are quite open that they won't work with him and they want him to fail. The better name for them is the party of "nay".
Augure666...
Doesn't look like many agree with you...
Romney/Ryan 2012! Let the professional take over!
Actually about 51% does according to the latest polls. We don't want "professionals" who will treat this country as though it was an enormous business. We want someone who cares about everyone.
"Romney has called China "a currency manipulator" and pledged to "crack down" on the country."
Wake the Hell up America, Bain Capital is Packing Up and Shipping a Highly Successful Non-Union Shop Called Sensata of which Mitt Romney owns controlling shares in to China and China is Building their Factory for Bain!
Click on the following Link and see for your self!
http://bainport.com/
I do believe in Fair Trade but not when it cuts through the Muscle of Hard Working Americans who have been Working all along and didn't need the Social Safety Net. Now the Jobs of these hard working Americans are being sent to China because they will work for 99 cents an hour and that is the only reason.
LOL...Half of Obamas retirement portfolio has Chinese investments.
Forget all the economic B.S. This is what you've really got to be worried about:
"Romney has called China "a currency manipulator" and pledged to "crack down" on the country. Obama, meanwhile, has described China as an adversary, and said his administration was sending "a very clear message that America is a Pacific power and we are going to have a presence there."
Just one "false flag", like the Gulf of Tonkin incident in 1964, that got us into the Vietnam war, and you could be witnessing the start of World War 111.
China is not responsable for the decline of America, big corperate America and the Presidents, past and present, Demo & Reps alike, they handed this country over to China on a SILVER PLATTER, and who started this bullsh!t "DONALD TRUMP".
Donald Trump...LOL...This started right after WWII when we were rebuilding Japan and Germany, This started when Americans purchased that cheaper Japanese made radio , No one cared about the workers here in the US that were making radios because heck they could just go get another job making something else, Then it was Sewing Machines, TV's and cars and Clothes and on and on...pretty soon we were buying everything from Japan and all those companies that made those things here in the US could no longer compete with the prices of the cheaper imported items and those Americans that used to make those items lost their jobs, Now instead of those items coming from Japan they are coming from China and more and more items are replacing once American made goods, This did not happen overnight, It happened over decades and it has eventually reached a point that it has caused our economy to crumble,Even the housing industry has been affected by cheap imported goods, be it sheet rock,paneling,nails,electrical wiring and fixtures to plumbing items, We did this to ourselves every-time we decided to purchase an item not made in the US because the imported item was less expensive.
Every time you purchase something made anywhere but in the US you help put another American out of work, Pretty soon it will be your job that gets eliminated due to foreign competition.
Ever tried finding something that you wanted that was made in the US? Ever found something that didn't cost three times what it did in China, Taiwan or Japan and was of better quality? All that matters to me is that it lasts for the price I paid. Feel free to boycott foreign made goods, your house will be empty.
Lets see, My dishers are made in the USA Homer Laughlin Fiesta Ware, Much better than anything made in China and about the same price maybe a little more but certainly well worth it, My furniture is all made in the USA, What furniture that we could not find as new made in USA we purchased as used and if it needed refinishing we refinished it. My hardwood floors are made in the USA and installed by me a US citizen, All the drapes and curtains were made by my wife from US sourced textiles,My computer is comprised of foreign parts but assembled by a US citizen in my community, My stereo system is an older US made system, Unfortunately my TV is from China ,Many of the throw rugs in my home are handmade here in the US. My kitchen cabinets are custom made by a local shop of US grown timbers, I could go on...My home is far from empty, It is very comfortable.
And I'm sure they were worth every penny, even if it costs three times as many.
So let's take a look back over the last say 10 - 20 years. China has dumped there crappy goods on the US, tainted with all kinds of poisons, with little to no repercussions. They've exported pet food that killed people's pets. The exported children's toys that were unsafe or had high levels of lead (a popular tactic with China). They've allowed the proliferation of a black market for just about anything of value made in the US. We've caught them at it dozens of times, and yet we still do business with them.
Sounds like the lobbyists got the upper hand again. We're all screwed so the money can keep pouring in!
and we as citizens allow it. you want change get the commie out and start raising hell about the products on the shelve in walmart.
America can just go and F** itself... to put it lightly!
No. You can go Phuk yourself.
Why I never knew they cared! After all their painting Western cultures, America in particular, as a menacing world presence (and I'm not even counting the first four decades of Communism)- even writing anti-American propaganda into their public school curriculum - and now they get all sentimental about what we are saying about them? More doubletalk, I say.
Hey everybody! to hell with politics, I just got paid and i'm going to get me some biscuits at BILL MILLER BBQ... Texas style that is... and they're not made in NEW YORK CITY or CHINA!
Guess what? Stubbs BBQ from AUSTIN is opening a branch here in Shanghai next month. So even the bbq is, in fact, being proffered to the Chinese. Soon they'll copy it, and sell it back to America at lower cost and quality.
Careful, your beer may be imported.
Careful, your beer may be imported.
I drink Yuengling and Rolling Rock, Both made in the US,We also purchase specialty beers from some of the micro breweries in our area, Wines came from a local NJ vitner Vallenzanos Winery, It is not that difficult to find local sources for many everyday items and if we continue to ask for it more will become available, China did not become a major supplier to the US overnight, They did it slowly one item at a time and that is the only way to reverse it, One item at a time.
Buy American...That job you save might just be your own.
I work with the products, I don't make them, so it doesn't matter to me where they come from. Frankly we should be working with others instead of dominating the market, and I'm not just talking about consumer goods.
So, the young chinese don't think this election has anything to do with them. If Romney gets elected and lowers corporate taxes, revises Obamacare to stop unemployment, and puts tariffs and regulations on chinese imports, the chinese economy will decrease and many of these young chinese won't be able to find a job. It will be more profitable for our companies to move back to the US rather pay the high tariffs. America's manufacturing companies will be able to compete with foreign products. With these good paying jobs coming back, Americans will be put back to work and our tax revenues will be increased solving many problems facing State and local governments.
And everything will be just fine in Mayberry again right? You will pay out the nose for those stiff tariffs you moron. I just love Republicans and their ignorant math.
It ain't coming back until USA CEOs reduce the American Total Compensation Package to Third World levels. This includes hourly wages, FICA and pensions etc. along with lowering their taxes.
In other words: Republicans wants Americans workers to earn the lowest wages as possible through-out your life. And, at the end have no Social Security, Medicare or Pensions to rely on. Instead they expect people to invest in an un-regulated Wall Street and 'good luck' in your old age.
China does not play fair in the world markets so it is time we forced them to compete on equal footing by raising the tax or import fees on their products. Then if Americans still prefer to buy foreign over domestic tax them another 40% to pay for the people on unemployment. There....problem solved.
So simple isn't it. Just impose a massive tariff on China."There.... problem solved."
Since America does not manufacture PC, printers, copiers, widescreen, iPhone, cellphone, etc, foreign manufactures without worry about the Chinese competition will charge the American consumer an arm-and-a-leg for consumer electronics. Some American farmers of soy bean, rice, grain, and chicken will go bankrupt as China will retaliate with equally stiff tariff.
Arrogant Americans think that without the American consumer, China will collapse as it can't export goods to USA. Less they forget, the world market does not revolve around the nearly insolvent American consumer who buys using vendor financing.
"As to China does not play fair..." America rip-off exporters with QE1,2,and 3, and the Twist, paying sellers with debased currency while the seller provided the Real McCoy to the American consumers. Unfortunately, too many Americans are gullible victims to American government propaganda.
Even in these times of crushing personal debt as well as national public debt, there is one thing the US possesses that keeps China somewhat dependent on us as a market: 99% of us have homes, and 100% of American homes have electricity behind the sockets (apart from the occasional storm interruption.)
When PRC-manufactured exports first hit American shores, they were mostly small, injection-molded plastic goods, like funnels or measuring cups. "Good deal!" we thought. "Keep the pollution from this industry on the other side of the world, and just ship us the cups and charge a dime for what used to cost us 49 cents!" But in 2012, 97% of the dollar value of Chinese-manufactured products come with either a cord dangling from it or a battery compartment somewhere built into it. China herself has reliable electrical service for only about 150 million of its 1.3 billion population, so the market for such products is external, and will be for some time, as rural electrification takes decades, not years or months.
I disagree that it is "arrogant" to recognize that Chinese economic planners understand this basic aspect of the relationship. The two economies are increasingly interdependent, and we will have to learn to get along with one another eventually.
ExtremeJim:
Only about 60 percent of Americans actually live in their own house --- regardless of the fact that the real owners are the banks that financed the mortgage. Of the 60% homeownership, at least half of the homeownership is made possible only because of government subsidies such as FHA, Fannie and Freddie which are back-stopped by the taxpayers and supported by foreigner investors who bought the government guaranteed mortgage-backed portfolios. Essentially, much of the American pride about private homeownership is phony.
No, the real owners are not the banks that financed the mortgage. The Fed through Freddy and Fannie are now buying almost all of the mortgages and they are the overwhelming owners of peoples houses. It is now out of the private sector altogether....The federal gov is taking over ownership and they are financed by our foreign debts.
Mitt Romney and Bain Capital will create thousands of Jobs!
In China!
Don't believe it, click on the following link and see for your self;
http://bainport.com/
"Romney has called China "a currency manipulator" and pledged to "crack down" on the country."
Wake the Hell up America, Bain Capital is Packing Up and Shipping a Highly Successful Non-Union Shop Called Sensata of which Mitt Romney owns controlling shares in to China and China is Building their Factory for Bain!
Click on the following Link and see for your self!
http://bainport.com/
I do believe in Fair Trade but not when it cuts through the Muscle of Hard Working Americans who have been Working all along and didn't need the Social Safety Net. Now the Jobs of these hard working Americans are being sent to China because they will work for 99 cents an hour and that is the only reason.
ted:
Don't pick on Bain just because Romney has a controlling interest. That's not looking at the whole picture. There are hundreds of US corporations that invest worldwide, including in China, just as there are hundreds of foreign corporations that invest in USA. GM, Ford, IBM, Citicorp, etc all invest in and has a large presence in China ..... as well as in Mexico, South America, Asia, and Europe. On the other hand, BMW, VW, Mercedes, Fiat, Toyota, Honda, Subaru, Nissan, Sony, and etc have large factories in USA. Certainly, there will be some German, Japanese, and Italian workers who claim they lost their jobs because they were out-sourced to USA.
The recent virulent political propaganda has been using China as the scape-goat when the real blame is the American government's economic and tax policies that drive American business to invest abroad. And the ignorant and gullible American people, like sheeps, obediently follow the propaganda and point fingers at China instead of themselves and their corrupt government.
Nobody said Fair Trade preserves your job. Fair Trade sometimes work to your advantage while other times it does not. Fair Trade does not always preserve over-paid-under-productive American jobs, especially when the government legislates a minimum wage. Americans have been spoiled; they expect a "Social Safety Net" as if that is a god-given right. Instead of embracing capitalism, America has adopted socialism; and when socialism fails America blames capitalism. When their own government bails out the WallSt Fat Cats, the proletariates blame "Greed"of WallStW instead of their own government. When their own Federal Reserve steals money from them 24/7 using the printing press, the American people accuse the Chinese of currency manipulation. God Bless America!
When you send all your jobs overseas this is what happens. We cpnsume everything on this planet and give nothing back whatelse do you think would happen. This country is a mess. Wake up people
Kristalnacht und "Juden sind Verboten" are the result of the German people falling for the scape-goat propaganda of the Third Reicht. In the past as in the present shameless politicians without principles or morality arouse people's irrational fear and hatred of a particular nationality or creed in order to advance their political agenda.
Instead of telling the American people the truth about Big Government's reckless borrow-and-spend economic policy; the waging of four pointless wars in Iraq, Yemen, Afghanistan, and Pakistan wasting over one trillion per years; and imposition of burdensome Federal regulations and oppressive taxes that have caused the off-shoring of manufacturing, industry, and finance, the two presidential candidates attack and blame Chinese for America's current economic malaise.
America is in the midst of the Great Recession, an economic implosion caused by its own profligate socialist spending. None of the candidates have the back-bone to tell the American people that there is no free lunch and the time has come to pay the piper. Both have exploited the ignorant and gullible Americans whose political loyalty can be harvested through a shared xenophobia, expressed as anti-Chinese slogans and half-truths. Essentially, the two candidates are fueling the anti-Chinese sentiment among the masses in exchange for votes. It is a form of vigilantism, conveniently executed for the populous vote.
Every four years, instead of the presidential candidates demonstrating political courage and moral fortitude, America has two hooligans masqueraded as presidential candidates.
exlax ETCH-A-SKETCH has ROMNESIA AGAIN! He forgot that it was his corrupt Republican corporate MONARCHY with their UNCONTROLLED CAPITALISTIC GREED that sent "OUR" money to China so they could reap the RETURN HARVEST of products made over there by selling them back to us! His short term memory IS NOT SHORT, it's just plain BULL$HIT for votes!
You sent your money and job to China when you decided to purchase anything made there, Blame yourself.
LostInThePineBarrens:
"You send your money and job to China" or anywhere else "when you decided to purchase anything made there," because the American government economic policy has failed. Don't blame the vendor. Do blame the out-of-control Big Government, corrupt politicians and the gullible voters.
Because of America adopted socialism, America no longer has the manufacturing capacity to produce consumer electronic. America is no longer the biggest steel producer or number one auto makers. America has not built and launched a major commercial ship in more than 50 years. As insolvent America has become addicted as a borrow-and-spend nation, America had to borrow $1.3trillion and $1 trillion from the Chinese and Japanese, respectively. Instead of being the world's greatest creditor, America has become the world's greatest debtor.
It's not just about our jobs being sent overseas---it's also about our technology, marketing and management expertise, higher education, and innovative ideas ALL being sent overseas to be used for China's nation-building.
In Shanghai:
Is that right? China has nothing of value of domestic origin or innovation? That everything in China is some how derived from USA in one form or another?
Let's just agree that arrogance is not an American monoply.
EXTRA! EXTRA! NEWS FLASH: Suspicion of China rife in US.
I have told everyone countless times over the years that from the very beginning we should have installed balanced trade stipulations and regulatory mechanisms into our international Free Trade agreements, designed to keep our nation's trade and other nation's trade in proper balance with each other, but no one has ever listened to me. (I have actually known about this danger since the early 1980s.)
Please understand that ALL complex systems need some form of regulation, if they are not to become unbalanced and unstable, and eventually self destruct. This is the first rule or law of cybernetics (the science of feedback), and it is basically as inviolate as the law of gravity. Please also understand that the concept of Free Trade is NOT synonymous with the concept of unregulated trade.
The idea should have always been to lift 2nd and 3rd world nations up to the economic level of the United States, not allow these nations to pull the U.S. down to their 2nd and 3rd world level. It was important to actually have legitimate economic growth in these developing countries, NOT just a massive transfer of wealth. We needed to allow for a lot more time when it came to economic leveling in our world, since it actually took centuries for this economic disparity to occur. Instead we have seen a catastrophic transfer of wealth which in the end benefits very few except some of the wealthy elite.
There has been over a $9.5 TRILLION imbalance of trade in goods with the rest of the world here in the U.S. just since 1989, and this imbalance of trade in goods actually goes back every month of every year since the mid 1970s. This represents a shortfall in national income, and in turn leads to a shortfall in government revenue, which has caused the U.S. government to continue to borrow and print massive amounts of money over the years in order to keep the country from crashing economically and defaulting on its debts. But eventually everyone reaches a debt limit in how much they can do this before they finally have to fix what is really wrong. But so far everyone is still avoiding the real problem, which is the poor way that our international Free Trade agreements were drafted in the first place.
Either all of these things finally get fixed in this next presidential term, or no one in their right mind will think of running for POTUS by the time that the 2016 national election rolls around.
PS - This massive transfer of wealth in the form of imbalance of trade basically amounts to foreign aid, so just since 1989 we have effectively given away over $9.5 TRILLION in foreign aid to the rest of the world, with most of it going to Red China (our next totalitarian superpower adversary). - RC
I cannot believe that major US industrialists were so tunnel visioned and focussed towards the gratfication of profit, that they were not cognizent of the skewered mess that they helped bring the US into. The glittering concept of a global villiage at this point in history is a facade, and always has been one. Naturally the Chinese are not going to play by our rules, they're not advantageous for them, just as we would not not relinguish any trade advantage we had with them, nor with anyone else.
CBS News has learned that during the Sept. 11 attack on the U.S. Mission in Benghazi, the Obama Administration did not convene its top interagency counterterrorism resource: the Counterterrorism Security Group, (CSG).
In the days after the assault, counterterrorism officials expressed dismay over what they interpreted as the Obama Administration's unwillingness to acknowledge that the attack was terrorism; and their opinion that resources which could have helped were excluded.
Counterterrorism officials from two agencies said they concluded almost immediately that the attack was by terrorists and was not spontaneous. "I came to this conclusion as soon as I heard the mortar rounds were impacting on top of the building our people were occupying," says one. "The position of the mortar must be plotted on a map, the target would have to be plotted, computations would be calculated that would result in the proper mortar tube elevation and the correct number of powder bags to be attached to the rounds."
A White House official says President Obama immediately acknowledged the assault was a terrorist attack. However, there was confusion as White House spokesman Jay Carney said three days later, "We have no information to suggest that it was a preplanned attack."
On Sept.16, US Ambassador Susan Rice told CBS' "Face the Nation" and other talk shows that the assault appeared to have grown from a spontaneous protest over an anti-Islam video.
CBS' Bob Schieffer asked Rice whether she thought "that this was something that had been plotted out several months ago?"Rice answered, "We do not have information at present that leads us to conclude that this was premeditated or preplanned."
In an interview last week, President Obama said "the minute" he became aware of the Benghazi attack, he directed his staff to "make sure that we are securing our personnel and doing whatever we need to do."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57544026/sources-key-task-force-not-convened-during-benghazi-consulate-attack/?pageNum=1&tag=page
HeReigns: And your point is?
THE ATTACK ON THE CONSULATE IN BENGHAZI WAS OBAMAS FAULT: The attack happened because the government was not stable. The government was not stable because Obama helped destroy the secular government, he even used the US Air Force to destroy the secular government paid for with our tax dollars and loans from other countries that we have to interest on. LIBYA WAS NOT THREAT TO US. The same thing happened in Iran after democrat Jimmy Carter threw the Shah under the bus. Because of Jimmy Carter Iran is now a threat to Israel and the world.
How many more Muslim countries like Iran will Obama help create?