Haha, we should bomb them for even trying to build their own stuff.

WE should be proud of they're accomplishment, as we paid for it!

I didn't see any woman or minorities in the picture. Just Chinese guys. The pilots being catapulted off that deck must be the bravest.

Does this mean we'll be able to buy one of these at Walmart?

Are the Chinese trying to climb the ladder of ascension? Quick...stomp their fingers! I don't want to share the view from the top.

Paid for with American taxpayer dollars.

If they had any aircraft on it, it could be called an aircraft carrier. Right now, with no planes capable of carrier landings, it is just a people carrier.

I'm sure it will get lots of favorable press from the Chinese.

I wonder if any sort of testing was done on this carrier. Seems to me that flinging a jet from standstill to 150mph in 2 seconds on a CURVED RAMP might be a bit dangerous. Maybe it's a new innovation.

@Ashtaroth Jump jets/Harriers... yeap.. they are real planes...

This is the ski-jump carrier design for V/STOL aircraft like the Harrier or the Yak-38. Although small, it will be very capable, but no match for one of our super carriers, but then it is highly unlikely there would ever be a situation where they would be pitted against each other. This is a Russian design that was cancelled when the Russians decided there was no role for it and the expense of developing their V/STOL strike fighter. The Russians made a good decision, the Chinese will sink a lot of Yuan into it with no real benefit.

The Chinese often make crap for export, but their home-grown military stuff ain't so bad. Thier new J-20 is pretty sophisticated aircraft.

Being built a $billion research facility in China in a joint operation with China. The idea is to develop technology for the new aeronautical industry in China. Beoing hopes to build a lot of planes there. So how much Tech do you expect Boeing will learn from the Chinese and be able to use in Boeing worldwide ops versus the tech that Boeing will transfer to China which China will use accross the spectrum of Chinese interests? I'm bettin a few Boeing Execs and Corp Lawyers are getting filthy stinking rich selling out the rest of Boeing, the US taxpayers who paid for Boeings development through military contracts, and research at the National Labs and Universities. All the good US knowledge is now permitted to be transferred to people who say in the news release of their first operational Carrier they intend to go get the islands in dispute with their neighbors. Good job American cheese heads. Transfer your technology AND enable people looking to start another war.

Gwad!, I hope the Chinese have better sense than to put this Carrier near the Japanese navy. If they do the Japanese will squirt water on it and sink it for sure.

Looks like a giant gondola.lol Hope they do not get those uniforms dirty.lol They look like the drivers of gondolas.lol

These boots were made for goosestepping, and thats just what they'll do.lol

secrets will become a thing of the past in the future because they outnumber us in smart people and will eventually (sooner than later) be more advanced. only the ability to use people for constuctive purposes will be neccesary. china does this and will reach the stars and mars first and the moon again first.

to save this country all the people in sports, or actors and musicians or any other profession that takes away from the brainpower (bankers of course, stop cutting my pennies jerks) of this country need to be smacked with the reality that they are leaches to the advancement of our society and dont deserve any of the free market bs power and money they garner.

punk

The aircraft carrier will play an important role in China's settlement of islands disputes and defense of its maritime rights and interests,” said Chinese naval expert, Li Jie, in an interview with Chinese newspaper, People’s Daily.

Well, if that is the case, the Chinese had better be willing to lose this carrier then, or keep it at a very safe distance. While Japan has no aircraft carriers, they posesses formidable self-defense capabilities in terms of anti-ship and anti-sub operations, and good ground-to-air and surface-to-surface (anti-ship) missiles. Their air force isn't too shabby either, and is in the midst of sealing a deal with the US to replace a number of its F-15s (already a great fighter) with state of the art F-35s.

I would assume one of the lower decks was modified to stockpile dogs and cats for feeding the crew.

These are outdated carriers, and will have not much military use. This is just a pick-me up for the Chinese military and citizens. It is not the Chinese military we must fear, it's their millions of "computer geeks" always trying to hack our stuff. Besides, China knows we can't make bullets fast enough to kill their troops and the only way to win would be nukes and that won't happen. It comes down to a finacial war.

This is a step towards war in the south and east China seas. America cannot stay out of this one.

Too many of America's friends are involved.

China will go to extreme lengths to control all the resources around the Paracel, Spratley and Senkaku islands. They want Taiwan as well.

American consumers and the corporations that have outsourced their manufacturing are in no small part responsible for China's new found power. We have unleashed the Dragon.

@ summis;

secrets will become a thing of the past in the future because they outnumber us in smart people and will eventually (sooner than later) be more advanced. only the ability to use people for constuctive purposes will be neccesary. china does this and will reach the stars and mars first and the moon again first.

The Chinese have stolen or copied most of their technology, including stealth, bullet train, nuclear, you name it. They gained the stealth technology in a cloak and dagger scheme in Hawaii. They copy all of or OSs.

because they outnumber us in smart people and will eventually (sooner than later) be more advanced.

Let me explain something to you about your comment here. First off alot what you call smarts is just memorizing. The reason that we are ahead in the world is not from being just smarter what seperates us from the Chinese,Russians, is that we are free. The reason we have the edge over most countries is that we are more creative. Living in a communist country just memorizing numbers and facts stifles this creativity, ie having to go with the flow, or else.

This is a known fact that not being able to speak out as you please on different ideas,and philosophies stifles creativity, this is what seperates us, not intelligence. We will always have the edge because of this.

We now have cloaking devices that have been successfully tested in Israel. They are stiil years behind our AEGIS, technology which I am sure they will copy or steal before long. We are many years ahead of Russia and China in technology, so I do not believe they have more "smarter" people, why? Because they can not or are not allowed to think for themselves.

@ ed;

This is a step towards war in the south and east China seas. America cannot stay out of this one

China is nowhere near being able to fight us conventionally. China and Japan will work things out as niether country wants a war on their hands at this time, nor in the near future. This carrier like an earlier post said is more pomp and circumstance than a true great advancement, or threat.

flawed logic...

@2sense; Yes that is why we can land a rover on mars, and they are just celebrating their first aircraft carrier. This is not an epiphany here, what I have told you has been known for awhile. Creativity seperates us from them period, not just about being "smart".

@Tranquil Nihlist

Does this mean we'll be able to buy one of these at Walmart?

Eventually YES. However, the article conveniently overlooked the fact that the Ukraine did not sell them the technology for the Giant Rubber Band to power it.

btorched, you are correct. We would never be able to make enough bullets.

Here is a clever math question: If the Chinese people lined up in single file and began walking forward, how long would it take before you see the end of the line?

The answer is never. The birth rate is more than enough to replace those passing by at walking speed.

btorched, you are correct. We would never be able to make enough bullets.

Yes,this is the realization we came to in Viet Nam, they were replacing the KIAs quick as we could kill them.

Breaking News

Romney has just said that with China making a Mini Carrier the United States should make 10 more Super Carriers to combat China's lone Mini Carrier, Romney stated the wealthy will not pay for the 10 carriers, he will just put the burden on the other 98%

This is a joke.. China already has a super carrier besides this one, it was spotted almost 2 years ago by spy satellite in the Pacific.. They have several escort Carriers and 2 more nuclear super carriers under construction with 1 being close to completion.. So in 3 to 5 years they will have quite a fleet.. As for the China bashers saying that the construction is cheep and substandard I think not.. These are state of the art technology rip offs straight from the Norfolk Ship Yard where the Ronald Regan was built.. Their construction yards are new and state of the art with highly skilled workers training thousands of new workers every year.. People keep forgetting that they are now the richest country in the world and money is power not to mention the population of over 1 billion people..

I just want to give a special shout out to our American Business Companies who have outsourced Millions of American jobs to China, without you the Chinese could not of made this Carriier. Lets give you more Tax Breaks to send more jobs to China maybe they can Build 3-5 Carriers with the money from outsourcing American Jobs. Thank You GOP/TP without your help in the outsourcing this couldn't be Happening.

Vote Straight Democrat in November 2012, if you want a job in America, GOP for the Chinese Workers

This ship gives new meaning to a Chinese Junk. Do ya' think that the Chinese could use some mothballed F-14's fighters to outfit this new ship? We could chip in a few Tomahawk missles to give them real fire power.

Anchors aweigh, China.

Besides these floating behemoths are now vulnerable to surface skimming and undersea missiles.. So from the economic stand point a 1/4 million dollar missile can evade detection and sink a 200 billion dollar US ship.. Silk worm 3 missiles can interdict ships up to 200 miles away and are mass produced in China for about 70,000 US dollars.. The same tech here would cost taxpayers 10 and 3 million and as we well know attrition is now 70% of modern warfare.. Advantage China, their space program will pass us by within 10 years at which time they plan on having a Moon base and will most likely clam the Moon as Chinese territory.. They don't have to waste money on R + D they just steal it and everyone know they can mass produce things..

@ Independant;

This is a bit of digresssion, but what you must realize is that our(me included) excesses,and the need for more at lower prices are one of the main drivers of outsourcing. We are once again #1 in manufacturing, the problem just as much as outsourcing(which I despise also) is automation. They have high tech machines in factories now that do the work of hundreds.

We also need to look at ourselves(inward) when we start blaming outsourcing. America needs to innovate and create jobs that will match the future needs in other countries. The staying 30 yrs at the same factory is fading away, I believe(and hope) that smaller individual efforts of commerce will overcome the need to work for large corporations in the future. ie Create your own economy.

This ship is not for military purpose. Romney plans on making offshore sweatshop plants of Chinese workers doing America jobs. Offshoring jobs all over the world to avoid paying his fair share of taxes in America!

The ship’s full capabilities remain unknown at this point, but the size of the Liaoning and China’s relative lack of technical experience with carrier operations suggests that it will serve more as a training vessel then a deployable ship for combat operations

What is really cool about this ship is that it runs on 6 AA batteries. I wonder where they stuck the "made in China" decal?

Hope they are energizers. It is on the bottom just flip it over and you will see it.lol

How funny, America has been bombing the world for the last 60+ years and continues to do so. Yet all the delusional BIGOTS are more worry about China and it's human rights policys LOL!? The US military is the biggest terrorist enterprise in disguise but of course all the iSheep patriots are too proud to say anything bad regarding the fascist NEOCONS of the US governments.

"Made in China":

Wait for the Carrier to "Fall Apart"; after getting US Secret Intelligence on how to make a Carrier. How much do they pay their workers?---

Insourcing, and China will have to deal with the quality of their own Product.

That is Hilarious.

@ redstarfalling;

Wow. what a dark cloud on our vine you are, sounds like more goofs on this funny looking carrier than on Chinas supressive ways, which they are growing away from slowly.

Oh and did if forget to say, "better dead than red" red.

@Chump Taxidriver

LOL I just love the responses I get from delusional BIGOTS, whom always have a tendency to resort to personal insults when face with the blunt truth :)

Oh and did I forget to say, "iSheep patriots are hilarious with their comebacks"...

Wonder how many China Zone parts were used in the construction?

howaboutthis-2165675 - Thanks all, for more than a few truly good laughs from several above average senses of humor.

That's the point. When they don't know jack sh!t, they fling their opinions that they believe are facts and you think they are making a joke.

Hey, Ed Flanagan, NBC News,

This Article is Years old Rotten Eggs.

We already know that this Chinese PLAN Aircraft Carrier was on Sea Trials since November 2011. Operational since December 2011. Had Aircraft Fueling Problems January 2012. The Anti Skid Deck Paint was done Twice due to a screw up. They did Chinese J-15 (21st Century updated Russian Federation SU-33) landings and takeoffs. The Ski Jump on the Front allows the aircraft to take off in a shorter distance than all other Aircraft Carriers, including placing the aircraft wings angle of attack into the lift position as to what the US and British wanted; but, was not done due to the design, manufacturing lead times of Decades to incorporate into the designs and build, resulting in the US and US Allies usually getting at least one decade old obsolete equipment.

We know that the Chinese and Russian Federation can spend way less on their Nations Defense Budgets because they still take people out and execute them for Manufacturing Delays, Cost Overruns, Contract Disputes, etc.. When the US must pay a "Fair and Living Wage" as $275 Labor to make a $25 Hammer so that the US Taxpayers must pay $300 for a Hammer for the US Military, same with the USAF Toilet Seat. And in most cases the US Workers and US Congress (Bribed by Lobbyists) demand Contract Delays, since this means US Civilian Jobs for a longer amount of time at the States that our Congressional Representatives represent (and not for the benefit of the entire Nation, US Military and US Taxpayers).

Also known is that this Aircraft Carrier is carrying a very limited number of Chinese Hypersonic Anti Ship Missiles that due to the size are normally due to size Land Based Only Missiles, as designed to kill US CVNs (Aircraft Carriers) while the US CVN Aircraft are out of strike range and evade all the current USN Countermeasures, SM3 BMDs, including the use of Screening Ships (to take the hit). We know that the Torpedoes are of the same design as the Russian Federation supercavitating torpedeos (underwater missiles). The Radar is of the same type previously sold to Iran that detected the latest US Stealth RQ-170, and the anti aircraft missiles are similar to the Russian Federation S-400 as Anti Ballistic Missile (ABM) and advanced long ranged Anti Aircraft also normally used on Land Based due to size also.

With SOS Clinton's statement that there is room enough for the Chinese in the Mediterranean; we also know the intent of the Chinese is to protect their recent gains from the US and US Allies losses at the "Middle East" (Iraqis Oil, Egypt Suez Canal, Afghanistan High Tech Mineral Wealth as required for the current and Future US Standard of Living) and North Africa (Libyan Oil).

This Chinese PLAN Aircraft Carrier is the 21st Century Updated with the assistance of the Russian Federation version of the Russian Federation Admiral Kuznetsov Aircraft Carrier currently at the Russian Federation's Only Mediterranean Port of Tartus, Syria, currently helping their Ally President Assad.

It has been the longtime Strategic Goal of the Chinese and Russian Federation to get the US and US Allies out of their Backyards (Strategic Resources). And they are succeeding by using the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran as their "Proxy Fighters", ever since President Obama's March 2009 Iran Policy (Appeasement) was seen by the Ayatollahs of Iran as the US negotiating from a position of Defeat, with the Ayatollahs of Iran then increasing their Overt and Covert Military Activities;especially their Special Forces, Quds, training, arming, funding the Worldwide Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists to Overthrow the US and US Allies Worldwide at the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region in Asymmetric Warfare; as the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's use of the Fundamentalist Islamic Jihadists Worldwide as their "Proxy Fighters".

It has been stated before by the Chinese that it is their intent to build 5 Modern 21st Century PLAN Aircraft Carriers and are currently building a 21st Century "Deep Water" Navy (21st Century Stealth Surface Warfare Ships and Boats (Submarines, also believed to be of the same Stealth as used by the Russian Federation Boat (Submarine) that was undetected in the Gulf of Mexico, as also sold to Iran).

References:

http://mil.cnr.cn/

Jane's Information Group

Global Security.org

The Central Intelligence Agency, The World Factbook

Congressional Research Service

DFI Forum (19 pages including photos)

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Shi+Lang+Aircraft+Carrier&view=detail&id=C9B47B450B64338FBFC3A9464E643ED140E9D480&first=42

Other Sources

Russian Federation Admiral Kuznetsov Aircraft Carrier

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=admiral+kuznetsov&FORM=HDRSC2

Chinese PLAN Shi Lang (aka Varag, Liaoning):

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=shi+lang&qs=n&form=QBIR&pq=shi+lang&sc=8-8&sp=-1&sk=

Article En Espanol (with Chinese Photos):

http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=shi+lang&view=detail&id=5A6E6DAE27F5E7ECF73166E27F8A5010814F5DB3&first=81

Old info on FL-3000N (Carrier based Anti Missile System).

http://www.comhaha.com/blog/575069-zhuhai-airshow-site-watch-fl-3000n-stopped-near-supersonic-missile-defense-system/

@redstarfalling;

I am a bigot because I would rather die than live under a suppressive ideology? You sir souind like the bigot against Americans.I was just pointing out you came in like a dark cloud in the middle of the spoofs with your rhetoric, remember what Clinton said about his speech being spot on at the DNC, "nobobody listens to rhetoric".

Blunt truth? How did I insult you? Because of a play on your name? Man up.I have seen no mention of human rights on our vine, what are you talking about? Nothing that is what you are talking about.

@Chump taxidriver

Have you been to China lately? Let me simply inform you, the Chinese citizens are actually quite happy with the way China is heading. Suppressive ideology? According to your Faux News & Co.? Perhaps you, like most Americans should take a trip down China lane where you'll be amazed to find that the spirit of the Chinese are contrary to the news feed you get from Faux News & Co. The Chinese, like most Americans, are only interested in becoming an economic powerhouse and in defense of those whom wishes otherwise on the motherland.

Blunt truth? Yes, simply by insulting me when history suggest my "rhetoric" holds weight, in regards to American imperialism/war crimes on humanity. Makes me wonder where have you been all these lively years?

@red;

Chinese citizens are actually quite happy with the way China is heading.

Your joking right? Given the chance the public would rise up against the government. How happy are the farmers that are kicked off their land they have lived on for generations, for a factory or new development. How happy are those imprisoned for life, or put to death for political opinions that go against China.How happy are those that are forced to work 60 hrs or more until apple steps in and threatens to pull out. How happy are those that lose a child and have noone to take care of them when they grow old because of the one child policy, which has screwed the dynamics of families in China.

How happy are those that can not speak their true feelings.Yes Chinese citizens are very happy, so they do not get executed or imprisoned.I do not care how big of an economic power you are, if your people are not free to choose, you are still a poor country in my eyes.

Here this goes straight to the last point I just made.

Things would seem to be good in China. They are the only world economy not in a financial demilitarized zone, things are booming.

Yet more money is not making people there happier. They're actually less happy today than shortly after the Tiananmen Square protest in Beijing was crushed by the military, says economist Richard Easterlin, researcher in "happiness economics" and namesake of the Easterlin Paradox.

You see the experts do not agree with you either.You asked for it you got it, that Red star is falling sir. Like I said given thechance the people would take over, since the Arab spring Chuna has been much more opressive on protest and allowing demonstrations, unless it is against a common foe that is, andeven then they worry it could turn into a rights march.

Not ot mention the smog and pollution that plagues the big cities daily, yes they are a happy bunch sir.lol

@Coral

You're joking right... really? You really think that "human rights" in the USA are just as rosy as the Faux News & Co. portrays it to be? Giving that your so called "freedom" are just mere words, as it is of little substance, where your voice/others does NOT even matter anymore in this day of age. That's right, Corporate America controls the livelihood of ordinary Americans and dictates the fundamental core of the US government. The bureaucratic monopoly of social and economic unrest in America is just too complex and complicated, even it's not intended for the fainthearted.

You wanna compare apple to apple....hmm let's see -- racism, discrimination, unjust crimes, broken judicial system, lack of health care, corporate greed = CLASS WARFARE in America!!! WOW really?

China is far from perfect but given the hugh population it possess, it's policys are appropriate in maintaining order and stability in a fast changing society. They're actually more capitalistic than the USA if you ask me, with the political will to get things done...unlike the bureaucratic fascist NEOCON US government.

Gee and don't even quote armchair experts on this issue either...they're part of the Faux News & Co.'s bid to brainwashed the honest American/Chinese citizens of how the Anglo-saxon establishment perceived the "world" as how it should be.

@ red;

Giving that your so called "freedom" are just mere words, as it is of little substance, where your voice/others does NOT even matter anymore in this day of age

I can go where I want,say what I want, and I get to vote. If I do not like the way something is I can assemble and protest. The Arab spring countries would argue with you on how much your voice matters to win freedom. Our voice does matter here sir, why do you think these candidates tirelessly campaign all over the country.

China is a suppressive regime, no matter how good their economy. Way to ignore evrything I said about examples of their suppression.

@coral

Sure you could go out, express yourself, vote and all, but as if it matters cause we know the majority of US politicians are bought and paid for. You could go and blow your brains out for all I care but that doesn't change the fact that the fascist NEOCON US government is the most bureaucratic and socialist state in the world.

Granted, the power of voice does matter as in the case of the Arab spring but again, in a democratic state, lies greed and corruption. That explains why what take decades to achieve in America, takes merely a few years in China. This is the result of pure capitalism in a hybrid communist country and it's only gona get better with time.

And yes, China's human rights must and should be improve, given the success of it's national progress nor does this exclude America from it's own human rights violation. Give it 20-30 years, China will be a force to be reckon with...

The last presidential election and ACORN scandal show REDSTAR is correct.. Our freedoms are slipping away and as China evolves we are de-evolving..

The simple fact is that as the cliche says: nothing lasts forever. Foreign wars and political in-fighting were the two main factors in the fall of Rome. Do you see the similarity? The United States cannot afford to "police" the world- IT IS DRIVING US INTO BANKRUPTCY (Troop involvement in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan estimated to be US$4 trillion by end- source: costofwar.org). I'm all for spreading democracy, but let's be practical, I also expect to see a return on an investment of $4 trillion dollars- from where will it come? It's all good and well to sit up here and China-bash if it makes you feel superior, but the sad reality is that China (followed closely by Japan) is America's biggest foreign investor. As of June 2012, China was the largest foreign holder of U.S. treasuries, with $1.16 trillion (of our "debt"), while Japan held $1.1 trillion in U.S. treasuries (source: Treasury.gov/ Huffington Post, September 11, 2012). The US economy is INEXTRICABLY linked to the Chinese (and Japanese) economy- and the relationship grows closer each day. Your political leanings may lead you to interpret the facts one way or another, but it won't change them. What has kept us ahead is our ingenuity, and our ability to demand top dollar for that ingenuity on the foreign market. In one way or another we are losing that edge. I don't pretend to know what the solution is, but I know what isn't- foreign wars and political in-fighting.

So let's give the Japanese and Taiwanese the five mothballed aircraft carriers, USS Independence (CVA-62), USS Constellation (CVA-64), USS Kitty Hawk (CVA-63), USS Ranger (CVA-61), John F Kennedy (CVA-67) problem solved. This Chinese carrier would not be able to take on even our obsolete ships let alone our new nuclear powered ones. Their new jump jet as any jump jet could never get in striking distance to a US carrer task force without being intercepted. This refurbished Soviet bucket of bolts is more of a coastal defense ship that a aircraft carrier. If they build a nuclear carrier I'd be more worried that it might explode or leak radiation than any military threat it would pose. They may build one nuclear carrier we have 11, two more under construction and another in the planning stage!

aaaaaaaaaaahahahaahahahahahhaahahaa go live in chy-na if you love it so much d-bag.

The Chinese have stolen or copied most of their technology, including stealth, bullet train, nuclear, you name it. They gained the stealth technology in a cloak and dagger scheme in Hawaii. They copy all of or OSs.

And much of the U.S. military technology advancement of the late 40's lasting all the way through the 50's came from Nazi Germany, particular in the field of jet propulsion and rocketry. This is not to mention that our crowning technological achievement during WW2, the atomic bomb, may not have been possible without the help of scientists fleeing from Nazi Germany. At a minimum, the Nazis would have developed it faster than we did. On that same note, Imperial Japan also provided the U.S. with a lot of biological and chemical warfare data/research, obtained via scientists who conducted trials of living human subjects during WW2. By cutting these data for immunity backroom deals, many Japanese war criminals escaped the international war crimes tribunal.

In the end, it is okay for us to do it but not okay for others? The hypocrisy never ends.

这是一个很好的船。 在中国其他地方所获得的技术。

Chairman Mao, circa 1965

No sweat. With Obama they'll already be there.

Complete show then......with Obama/GE providing the technology....

You guys are riot.lol

OBAMA probably donated his own money to China to help build the carrier!! F*CK OBAMA!

@ tomkat; Whether you agree with him or not he is still your POTUS,at least please respect the position if not the man.

Even if I disagreed with every single policy of a president, I would still give my life to save his/her life if it came down to it. Each true American should feel the same.

Well,after scrolling down i finally found some idiot saying the Carrier has a connection to Obama.I am amazed it took so long.

This is a toy ship compared with the American carriers. We should blow it out of the water and be rid of it.

Even if I disagreed with every single policy of a president, I would still give my life to save his/her life if it came down to it. Each true American should feel the same

Yeah.... About that.... I wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. I don't know where you'd get the silly idea that his life is more important than yours. All politicians suck. The world is a worse place because of the actions of all of them.

@Coral Taxi, ok Obama is the POTUS but over the last 3 years he has lost all my respect. Give my life to save his, no way. Joe the gaff per minute Biden is the only reason i would ever think of saving Obama.

So outsourcing is only okay when a Republican is in office? You guys are hypocrites lol.

Tomcat372, nevermind...

Coral Taxi, thank you for actually being insightful and using your smarts! At least you aim before you shoot unlike some of the others who just talk out of their... yeah.

@ spence;

I don't know where you'd get the silly idea that his life is more important than yours. All politicians suck. The world is a worse place because of the actions of all of them.

I would feel it as my duty as an American to protect my commander in chief, if I had to. No one persons life is more important than the other. This would be more about being a Patriot as many would do the same as I. The main point was that the president should be shown respect, if you disagree fine, there is no reason to be derrogatory toward our POTUS.

@ Chase; Thanks, I usually stay out of political issues but this year there is so much misinformation I could not take it anymore, so I am on a tangent on those that wish lie about Obama and bash him, and wrongly put down America.

Coral Taxi...good for you, and I suggest that you hop right on a plane to Pakistan where there are thousands of wild eye fanatics who would like nothing better than to do harm to our President. You need to hurry right on over and get over there cause there's trouble a'brewing. If you think you need some help, I'm sure Chase 19b4 would be delighted to go with you. I'm sure I speak for the rest of us when I say...Thank You for your willingness to go over there and take care of this potential threat to our President...God Bless You.

@ colorado;

I was just a using hypothetical to show the level of respect and loyalty we should have toward the POTUS, whether you agree with him/her or not. You attack us and our loyalty instead of spencers derrogatory remark? This shows your true character as an American.

You might not respect the man, but as an American you should respect the offfice.

And got their Chinese invader butts kicked in the process .......

Everyone says that except Chavez and Ahmadinejad, their lips and nose are brown though.

Ahhh yes, A cup heaven. LMAO!

I never saw bigger than an A cup among Chinese women. Although they advertise falsies on TV a lot. If a Chinese guy ever saw an actual B cup he'd faint.

Its not like the men over there can complain, given the equipment they bring (or don't bring I should say) to the table.

Yea, I've heard that Asian guys are short. (Their equipment I mean.)

I rather take a nice natural A or B cup over silicon nips and botox a$$eS ;)

Yea and I've actually heard that big White dudes have the smallest equipment...that's why they invented Extenze and some other countless crap! At least Asians don't flung around like wet noodles ;)

@RedStar Rising: Yea, nice shapely natural A or B cups are great. My very favorite size is 36B.

RedstarRising

I rather take a nice natural A or B cup

Do you also like their concave little boy asses ? Yuck.

out of the woods

Do you also like their concave little boy asses ? Yuck.

No but I know in America, there are many "Jerry Sandusky(s)" who love concave little boy asses... Yuck! :)

You do not have to place ground troops in China, which IMO would be suicide...

You just have to isolate them from resources and block their exports...

The current social unrest and internal conflicts will, ultimately trigger China's downfall...

The enviromental damage being cause by the Three Gourges Dam, the historical flooding by the Yellow River, and lack of domestic energy supplies. These will cause China to implode, sooner rater than later...

No society that is unable to feed its people has ever survived...

Ave

Seems you know where your "rice bowl" comes from?

If you want to decimate China???

Bombing their dam systems, would cut their power/transportation links, flood their food sources, and kill millions...

This tactic was effectively used during many of China's internal conflicts...

This is China's Achilles heel and there is little that China can do to prevent it from happening, during a major conflict...

History tends to repeat itself and the Yellow River over-flows its banks, naturally about every 150+years...

Yes - let's just go warmonger against the people bankrolling our debt. The only outcome of a conflict with China is the devastation of both economies, and potentially nuclear fallout.

They can't attack us any more than we can attack them. If they do, Europe and the Americas will cease trading with them (not to mention Russia and the CIS). If we do, they simply stop building things we need, and buying our debt.

The simple fact is that they're in their ascendency to superpower status, and we're uncomfortable with that - even though we're the ones who fully empowered them to become the next global superpower.

Correcto Amundo!

They would go nuclear in a heartbeat. These people are NOT the Russians.

This tactic was effectively used during many of China's internal conflicts

This tactic would probably make them get the nukes ready, let us pray it never does.

@caljam; Definitely.

The Chinese are violent evil people. We had to fight them in Korea, and we should attack them now. They are warmongers.

@Clarence24

Say to attack them in one sentence then call them warmongers in the next? Ironic.

The only thing that's going to cause a war between us and China is probably Iran.

Clarence24 is your real name Dick Cheney?

Funny delusional BIGOTS still believed the fascist NEOCONS of the USA are more peaceful than CHina when history suggest on the contrary.

China can't afford a war with us any more than we can with them. We are much of their market. Another thing, if they went nuclear, their population, and industrial centers are too close together.

A few nukes along the coastline, and one at 7 gorges dam, and they will lose much of their capability in hours. The dam releasing would cause massive Earthquakes and flooding as well as take out much of their countries power. One well placed in the eastern Himalayas would also expedite the flooding.

They would have to launch hundreds at us, and still have to fight our survivors, which would be one of the best civil forces in the world, maybe the best.

out of the woods

America may hold the edge in technology but they lack the political will to go an all out war with China. Economically, we're so intertwined to the point where it simply becomes "what's NOT good for the goose, ISN'T good for the gander". There's a saying "don't bite the hand that feeds you" -- in this case, America needs China as much as China needs America, so war is virtually unlikely...that is unless America decides to meddle in China's internal affairs and you betcha China will respond in kind.

Your nuke theory amused me...let's just say in a nuclear showdown between the world's superpowers, it would make life on earth "uninhabitable" due to the nuclear radiation fallout. So for all you armchair warhawks, please wise up and save your saber-rattling.

They would have to launch hundreds at us, and still have to fight our survivors, which would be one of the best civil forces in the world, maybe the best.

Really? Haha considering the aftermath of Katrina, I'm not too worry about America being the best civil forces in the world. A nuclear response by CHina would mean all major US cities decimated, with looting and raping going viral / rampant...that should be more than enough to keep America busy while China rebuilds :)

because there was sooo much looting and raping going on after sandy

@William Porter,

You are correct as far as you go.

1) It will take China at least 30 years to even begin to catch up in carrier operations and battle fleet operations necessary to project power outside of littoral waters. As we learned in WWII, it is not an easy thing to learn. But we learned it while the Japanese never got the hand of either carrier or submarine operations.

2) The Chinese have already killed the cachet of big carriers. The Chinese have already deployed ballistic MIRV anti-carrier battle-fleet missiles. We have the same capability. Because of its huge flat deck, carriers give a huge radar/visual signature that makes them a sitting duck. One Pentagon analyst testifying before Congress recently suggested symbolically painting them bright yellow. We have no defense against the Chinese missiles at this time. (And any future defense would be notably easily overwhelmed.)

3) China's concerns are mostly in the contiguous waters, including the Yellow Sea, South China Sea, Sea of Japan (Eastern Sea), etc. Small carriers, sitting in their own territorial waters, are an ideal way of protecting these sorts of areas and indeed, small island groups that might have associated fisheries or oil and gas deposits. In this role, carriers serve as a deterrent force against intrusion.

4) Carriers complement China's substantial and massive fleet of advanced diesel-electric subs that are capable of lying in wait for weeks or months hiding by simply lieing in the mud at the bottom of shallow coastal seas. Already the Chinese subs delight in surfacing in the middle of American battle fleets having been previously undetected. The subs are a more immediate threat.

5) But overall, American subs and carriers are still unmatched in the world because they are just the tip of a well0integrated iceberg of ships and subs and reconnaissance satellites and missiles and ground forces. China is a long way from such integration.

@Chris

Well said. While we can debate to no ends as to the merits (or lack thereof) of China, we can probably all agree that they are good at reverse engineering. While this carrier of theirs is a retrofitted Ukrainian ship, it wouldn't surprise me at all that they start building their own sooner rather than later.

Another of the problems I foresee for them is the lack of standards and regulations in their current business and industrial sectors bleeding into their military. You may have a great ship on paper, but if the build quality is poor, it won't stand up to real combat.

Desertmo the Chinese don't reverse engineer per say they taken western tech and bend it to they're likely. The old Soviets reverse engineer. The once they apply enought Walmart supplied dollars can start building a blue water fleet strong enought to defend it's interest. Not against the US but Regional powers. I do see this ship as a Good Will Ambassador. Look for at your local Fleet Week in four to five years.

@William Porter

They aren't straight copying the technology without understanding it. Once they have a technology that's more advanced than their own, take it apart, figure it out, and build new ones that doesn't rely on the original, it becomes the definition of reverse engineering. It doesn't really matter how they got their hands on the technology in the first place.

20 years ago, China was considered a developing nation and extremely poor. Now they're building space ships and stealth fighters and considered one of the richest country in the world. I'd be more worried about what happens in 20 more years.

Damn Chris I don't know whats more stupid about your post. The part about the Japanese not getting the hang of carriers (you do know the battle of midway was won mostly due to luck, and the rest due to incredible damage control, despite American Officer making mistake after mistake. Read a book on it ffs.)

Or the part where you said we have no defense against their laughable missiles. When it comes to missiles, the best defense is a good offense. In a wartime situation those would be the first targets and the Chinese are so far behind they could do nothing but watch. Oh, and we do have a number of redundant missile defense systems on our carriers. But go figure, they are classified so a random smuck on the internets would know little about that.

joe32 - Oh, and we do have a number of redundant missile defense systems on our carriers. But go figure, they are classified so a random smuck on the internets would know little about that.

LOL. During his Campaign Senator Obama kept saying "Transparency". When he became President all the previous President Bush Era Political Appointee and Paid Intern US Civilians (that finally learned their Jobs) carried boxes of contents of their desks and their no US Military nor US Intelligence Agencies Training nor Experience were out.

President Obama then put in his own Political Appointees and Paid Interns with No US Military nor US Intelligence Agencies Training nor Experience, many did not even know how to use Windows Operating System Computers (including at the Whitehouse, did not even know how to check their emails) as many only used Apple Computers.

Because of President Obama's promise of Transparency, the Pentagon, Intelligence Agencies were flooded with requests for Classified Information to be Declassified by Screen Writers, Book Authors, previously US Military. President Obama's Political Appointees and Paid Interns were rubber stamping almost everything Declassified. Many did not even know what a SEAL was and thought that was a seal (animal) with a bomb strapped on.

So for me that was great because finally after decades a lot of missions that I was never credited with (Combat during so called "Peacetime"), to be promoted ahead of my peers, were finally included in my US Military Personnel Records, as well as many of the Schools, Training, Assignments, that the US Military Personnel Records Clerks with a minimal Security Clearance previously did not have a need to know.

Because of all this uncontrolled Declassifications, the US Department of State, the US Military, US Intelligence Agencies, etc. started their own Monitored Internal Information Networks that were not accessable to these US Civilians (many still pending Security Clearances).

Keep on saying "Classified", that is only Classified from you, or those not willing to do the Research or file a Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) Request. Or even do the obvious, go to other Nation's Internet Sites after learning another language(s).

When was the last time you were on a USN CVN (Aircraft Carrier), and when did you Earn your USN Surface Warfare or Submarine Warfare. Keep on laughing about the Chinese Hypersonic Anti Ship Missiles, Supercavitating Torpedoes, Self Rising Rocket Assisted Remote Controlled Underwater Mines, etc.; I am not laughing because I know a lot of USN (eventhough I mock them for getting participation medals, since I have never seen a Taliban swim a few hundred miles attack them, they did not get their shower, internet not working, missed a meal).

Everyone (except you) knows that the US Manufacturers blab everything to Advertise so they can sell to other Nations.

WPorter. You are one of a few on this site that gets it. Look at all the posts above who say that because today the Chinese have a second hand carrier today they can't be a bully. Few peope see the trend and know where it's going. IF it takes 30 years it's still going to happen. The Chinese do not have to go as high as the US in current Navy strength. They have carriers being built that are much more modern. You are right , this one is training eqiuipment. They are putting subs out there too ! But the thing is, the US is busted financially. Building another $trillion carrier and the 20 ships and subs it takes to safeguard it in combat is not going to happen for us. As our current carriers age out and get decommissioned our "curve" of projected power goes down while theirs is rising. When the lines on the chart cross they'll go take those islands. Meanwhile, those people above will tell themselves it doesn't matter and they'll go buy more Chines stuff and transfer more cash to China.

Actually it was made in Soviet Russia and China bought it from them. Which doesn't really bode much better for its fate though, lol.

They will never successfully deploy such a complicated vessel because they rack disciprine.

@default,

Actually it was a hull made in the Ukraine and bought without engines, aircraft elevators, electronics or steering systems. Essentially it was a barren hull (though a lot of interior work had been done.) But this benefitted the Chinese greatly since, for the cost of scrap, they got a ship that they could fit out themselves exactly as they wished. This gave Crew One the benefit of knowing the ship like a book and giving it the most valuable knowledge available on any ship --- firsthand knowledge of every bolt and switch and part.

Tranquil, that was the best post I've seen all day. Almost spit out my coffee. Do I also "Rack Disciprine?"

I don't know, Crazson. I've used that line in a previous post and should really get some new material but, alas, I "rack disciprine".

My son can build a better one with his Lego's.

To rubbish Chinese made products are the behaviour of sour losers who are jealous of China's rise into prominense.

Apart from the hull, the retrofit uses entirely China made stuffs, the quality of which are just like Chinese satellites and spacecraft which function extremely well.

From the looks of it, the first 30 foot wave will capsize it.

If that's the case, perhaps you iSheep BIGOTS need to stop shopping at your favorite retailer chain aka Walmart. But oops, Americans are cheap as they come...

Truth Hurts

The Chinese are building 2 variants of US F-22 & F-35

- the J-21 and J-22. The J-22 is being designed and 1 is built with a more rugged landing gear to enable carrier operations. Both are believed to have stealth qualities.

yep. that figures...

Actually the Chinese have a large number of Su-33's that are easily "navalized" for carrier operations. The presumption is that around 40 of them have been already converted. In addition, China is developing its own multi-role fighter the Shenhang J-15 for that role.

This is the fourth carrier that the Chinese have. They bought the Minsk and Kiev as well. These are truly OLD Russian carriers. They also bought the Australian carrier Melbourne --- a "flat-decker." The Varyag is far from being old. It is as modern (or more so in some areas) as any carrier we have.

They have been flying aircraft off the Melbourne, Minsk and Kiev for at least a couple of years and have probably built sufficient experience to transfer a full complement of 30 Su-22's to the Liaoning. This would put the Liaoning in the position of being the first truly deployable aircraft carrier.

The Chinese have at least two carriers of the "Varyag-type" under construction. This would bring their fleet to six carriers, of which three are ultra-modern.

@ Jack Jax, From what I've read and seen they aren't building anything at all based on the F-22 or F-35, but what they are building are some planes based off of existing Russian Migs and Sukoi fighters (which are plenty capable as is). Considering some of Russia's recent developments, they could be very capable aircraft. China is also supposedly well into the development stages of a stealth fighter that is supposed to be very capable, but I haven't heard details on if it is purely Chinese in design, or a version of one of the aircraft already mentioned. Even quick internet search for Russian and/or Chinese fighters will bring up plenty of images.

Many people will joke that if it is Chinese or Russian then it will have poor quality, but this is not as true today as it was years ago. Also, they will build in numbers greater, and with the issues surrounding both the F-22 and the F-35 I do not think we have lots of room to be laughing at others. As an argument about quality I would point out that we Americans proudly put our Chevy Corvette against European supercars and brag that it cost half as much but still puts out the performance numbers. Other examples would be to say that the AK 47 isn't as highly engineered as the M 16 / M 4, or that the Russian T-34 tank (WW2) wasn't as quality as the German Panzers.

Even if Chinese / Russian aircraft aren't entirely on par with the technology, cost, quality, of our planes they still have missiles and bullets capable of fulfilling their intended mission if called on. To laugh them off, (like this "small" carrier which is very comparable to what the British used in the Falklands to great effect), is only to convince ourselves of a supremacy that honestly does not exist any more in the present day and age. As a vet I don't enjoy saying that, but I think it is important to be honest with ourselves. Just mho...

This carrier has a long history of design changes and redesigns under the Soviets. It doesn't use a catapult so hence the ski ramp. This was one of several major design changes the Soviets made. At best, it is a compromised design. This one was never finished and was completely stripped to basically just a hull before China bought it. Technically, it was bought with the thought of making it into a floating casino/tourist attraction as was done with two other carriers bought previously. When plans fell through on the casino idea, they decided to make it into a carrier again.

The ship was designed around mainly the Su-33 Russian aircraft. China was trying to buy some from Russia but the deal fell through. They ended up buying an unfinished one from the Ukraine. They have since built their own knock-off called the J-15 that is designed around the basic Su-33 airframe with domestically produced guts. Reportedly, the "new" carrier has been commissioned with the J-15s.

In theory, the Su-33 is a pretty decent aircraft, but who knows about the J-15 knock-off, although it is reported to have a slightly higher thrust to weight ratio.

There's a lot of basic flaws to this design and depending on how well the Chinese outfitted the carrier and the aircraft, it could very well be little more than a low capability show piece. Odds are that it is probably more about show than go and is going to be used more as a developmental learning tool. Whether or not it is even on a par with the Russian equivalent would be pure speculation. I suppose it is better than not having a carrier at all, but on its own, it isn't much of a threat. Whether or not they ever really look at getting into real full scale carrier operations is questionable because it is a hugely expensive undertaking.

Large super carriers are pretty impressive technology, however they are inherently vulnerable. They are great when used against low tech opponents, but chances are that if you put two US super carrier groups against each other in battle you'd probably end up with a couple massive sinking wrecks and a few aircraft with nowhere to land. The bigger you get, the harder it is to defend and the more attractive a target it becomes. A few low tech, but stealthy subs launching a barrage of the best anti-ship missiles from a relatively close distance would be devastating. If you are someone like China, taking that kind of strategy probably makes more sense than trying to match us one to one with carrier fleets in an all out war.

Their launching of this carrier is most likely just about show to appear more advanced than they are and it does potentially serve as an intimidation tool against lesser powers. I really don't see it as a threat like they are trying to be militarily competitive. I think they have much less obvious strategies in that regard. There should be little doubt that they are completely capable of rendering satellites useless and being that the Chinese actually built the first missiles centuries ago, we shouldn't underestimate that type capability. As much as the Chinese want to be technologically leading edge, they are pretty good at "simpler/cheaper". I think when you get right down to it they are strong believers in the KISS principle. When you look at manufacturing in China for example, they are building the latest technologies, but they aren't using the most sophisticated methods. When you have many millions of people looking for work, why use a big excavator to dig a ditch when people with shovels will do the job? They will use the technology when it makes sense, but they will try to stay practical.

I really don't think that we would ever really want to engage them in a full scale war and if we judged them only by their obvious conventional capabilities, that would be a huge mistake. I think that when there is evidence that they are trying to steal our military technology secrets, it is more about discovering vulnerabilities than it is about building their own.

Chris,

You are usually dead on but I think you may have some bad info. Can you provide some links? My research suggests a considerably different story. At least one of us has some bad info.

tstevens91,

Some really good points. Reminds me a lot of back in the 50's and 60's when we talked about Japanese junk, and then decades later they were eating our lunch in a lot of areas. The Chinese right now are developing a lot of technologies that we are sitting around debating about particularly in the energy sector. If we assume they are still centuries behind, we're fooling ourselves.

I believe the Chinese are far more capable than we give them credit for. The absolute best leading edge technology isn't always the best against someone who is very good at innovating. We should know this all too well. Think about an enemy that doesn't even have an airforce yet they destroyed the twin towers because they "innovated". Look at the use of IEDs to kill our troops. They basically use ancient artillery shells and don't even need a gun to launch them. There are other examples too. Just look at the pyramids built thousands of years ago without any big diesel operated construction equipment. Heck, we're still not completely sure how they did it. Often the more high tech you get, the more the hidden vulnerabilities. War has always been about finding the other guy's weakness and exploiting it. Sometimes we make things far more complicated than necessary and the more complex, the more the potential opportunities for something to go wrong. In WWII, the Germans thought they had an absolutely unbeatable coding method, the Enigma machines. They were so confident, they got careless. That mistake may indeed played a hugely significant role in the war's outcome.

We would be foolish to be over confident because we feel far superior. The Chinese have a lot going for them. If nothing else it is hard to debate the numbers game when you just look at people alone.

jack from Jax - The Chinese are building 2 variants of US F-22 & F-35

Based on the 2010 Russian Federation PAK-FA Generation 5 Stealth. Note: The USAF designation for the F-22 is Generation 4 Stealth, the F-35 is Generation 5 Stealth. Detailed (too technical) Air Force Times Articles.

Chris-749391 - In addition, China is developing its own multi-role fighter the Shenhang J-15 for that role.

Already done. And previously the J-15s (21st Century upgraded Russian Federation SU-33s), tail numbers 108 and 80 were the first to do "touch and goes", aircraft carrier landings, refueling*, practice rearm, and launches. Other J-15s were seen at their Land Based Mock Up along with their Anti Submarine Warfare Helicopters (copies of Russian Federation).

*Believed the Aircraft Carrier was having problems refueling aircraft, as a fuel truck was on deck.

1NewDay - It doesn't use a catapult so hence the ski ramp.

21st Century Electro Magnetic Catapult (might be used later on 2015 USN CVN 78 and 2016 Brit QE) and Russian Federation Arresting Cable System.

1NewDay - Can you provide some links?

See bottom of post# 2.45.

I used to have some photos of the PLAN Shi Lang with the J-15s on deck (fuel trucks still on deck, meaning they still had problems with their carrier internal refueling) being escorted by the current PLAN 21st Century Stealth Missile Destroyers (Cruisers)(slanted low profile superstructures). Of course not being at home, recently CONUS R&R and Leave Cancelled and sent to US AFRICOM, can't post the overhead pictures.

What we have not figured out yet, is if they will be nuclear weapons capable, and just how many Hypersonic Anti Ship Missiles including reloads they have.

David,

Are you suggesting that the Liaoning has an EMCAT system? To my knowledge the Gerald Ford will be the first carrier to use such a system. Theoretically, they could potentially be retrofitted and would likely be adaptable to the ski ramp style, but the only advantage would be to allow for a bigger variety of aircraft to be used. As I understand it, one of the main reasons we are taking that route is that it is far more "tunable" so as to put less wear and tear on aircraft. Although these should work on smaller carriers, they are huge electrical power hogs and probably better suited to nuclear powered ships. I know they do have "kinetic based" storage systems, but all this takes up space. True the EMCAT or EMALS require less space than steam catapult systems, but still you're going to give up valuable space on a carrier of this size potentially limiting the amount of aircraft you can have onboard.

As I understand it the ramps were added to the Varyag and the Kuznestov as an afterthought to save space and the original design was supposed to have steam catapults. I believe the ramps and the Su-33s were designed as a "pair". Launching other aircraft off the ramp may or may not work well. It's a physics issue and weight, thrust, launch speed and attack angle all need to be just right plus the gear needs to be beefed up to take the G -forces. As I understand it, the first generation of ramps didn't work and they had to take second crack at it to get it right. I believe this is why the Chinese built the J-15, Su-33 knock-offs, trying to keep all the physics right. Granted, an EMCAT system theoretically gives you more options.

I'm not suggesting that the Liaoning is a dog, but maybe not quite as versatile as typical US flattop designs, but it is smaller and cheaper. It was probably a good way to go for the Chinese saving a lot of development money by essentially copying a proven design. I was under the impression too that they skipped the missiles, again for more space and not having the Russian missiles available. Probably doesn't make a lot of sense to have the missiles on board either if you are going with a feet approach in which case it makes more sense to have another smaller ship dedicated to such purposes.

As I stated, I don't think it is too smart to underestimate the Chinese capabilities, but I don't think this carrier is quite the beast they are trying to sell it as. Nonetheless, way better than no carriers, even with its limitations. As has been pointed out, carriers are great and allow you to extend your reach of attack capabilities, but they aren't by any means invulnerable. Hypersonic anti-ship missiles are just too fast to adequately defend against. As scramjet technology gets better, aircraft carriers could potentially go the way of dinosaurs. All depends on what level of technology you are up against.

David,

Are you suggesting that the Liaoning has an EMCAT system? To my knowledge the Gerald Ford will be the first carrier to use such a system. Theoretically, they could potentially be retrofitted and would likely be adaptable to the ski ramp style, but the only advantage would be to allow for a bigger variety of aircraft to be used. As I understand it, one of the main reasons we are taking that route is that it is far more "tunable" so as to put less wear and tear on aircraft. Although these should work on smaller carriers, they are huge electrical power hogs and probably better suited to nuclear powered ships. I know they do have "kinetic based" storage systems, but all this takes up space. True the EMCAT or EMALS require less space than steam catapult systems, but still you're going to give up valuable space on a carrier of this size potentially limiting the amount of aircraft you can have onboard.

As I understand it the ramps were added to the Varyag and the Kuznestov as an afterthought to save space and the original design was supposed to have steam catapults. I believe the ramps and the Su-33s were designed as a "pair". Launching other aircraft off the ramp may or may not work well. It's a physics issue and weight, thrust, launch speed and attack angle all need to be just right plus the gear needs to be beefed up to take the G -forces. As I understand it, the first generation of ramps didn't work and they had to take second crack at it to get it right. I believe this is why the Chinese built the J-15, Su-33 knock-offs, trying to keep all the physics right. Granted, an EMCAT system theoretically gives you more options.

I'm not suggesting that the Liaoning is a dog, but maybe not quite as versatile as typical US flattop designs, but it is smaller and cheaper. It was probably a good way to go for the Chinese saving a lot of development money by essentially copying a proven design. I was under the impression too that they skipped the missiles, again for more space and not having the Russian missiles available. Probably doesn't make a lot of sense to have the missiles on board either if you are going with a feet approach in which case it makes more sense to have another smaller ship dedicated to such purposes.

As I stated, I don't think it is too smart to underestimate the Chinese capabilities, but I don't think this carrier is quite the beast they are trying to sell it as. Nonetheless, way better than no carriers, even with its limitations. As has been pointed out, carriers are great and allow you to extend your reach of attack capabilities, but they aren't by any means invulnerable. Hypersonic anti-ship missiles are just too fast to adequately defend against. As scramjet technology gets better, aircraft carriers could potentially go the way of dinosaurs. All depends on what level of technology you are up against.

During the early 70's the USA obtained the latest MIG...

The US Engineers laughed when they found vac-tubes in the avionics systems...

Then they discovered that these systems would still function in a EMP environment. Where the semi-conductors used by the majority of the USA systems would not...

During this time I worked on Naval Avionics systems and there were many up-grades and systems changes to over-come this problem. It was one of the driving forces behind the adoption of fiber-optics...

Some times having the latest & greatest is not as good as having a functional system...

If you want a current up-date with great photos and detailed numbers/specs on the Chinese Military - 2012 Update: "The Rising Sea Dragon in Asia," and the growth of the Chinese Navy
see http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2895653/posts

"Both are believed to have stealth qualities."

Yeah, but as far as I'm aware, Chinese stealth technology is decades out of date. I think they're going to have to make some huge improvements with these new aircraft to compete with the US military. The J-20 uses F-117 stealth tech and is too heavy and underpowered to even come close to being the F-22 killer it was initially feared to be.

Moreover, why do these chickenhawks care if China has a small diesel aircraft carrier with no compatible airplanes?! It's like feeling worried that a business partner has bought a BB gun, while you are packing an assault rifle.

Would those be sesame chickenhawks? Or szechuan chicken hawks?

Yeah and I'm sure you'll chime in when China tries to take over the world, "how could we have let them have that technology?".

We are a world of nations which make us all enemies due to the fact that all nations only work in their own self interest.

Rick and Esq, you two are very naive to think it's no big deal that China's military technology and capability are increasing exponentially as they buy or steal it (or at least base their designs on stolen spec's) from other nations. It's in the world's best interest for China not to have such a powerful military.

Not that there is anything that anyone is going to do about China building it's military capability. But to act like it's no big deal is very naive. Looking at Chinese history we all better hope they don't plan repeating the "Qin Dynasty" on a global scale (i.e. conquer everyone to unify them).

Conservative republicans have the right to tell anyone and everyone what to do, just ask them!

EngEsq = English Lawyer, a patent clerk at London Office, selling out patents to the Chinese.

And don't even attempt to say Engineer is Eng, or I will embarass you by reposting your other post on a different subject. That you also talked about the differences in Lawyers at England.

Yeah and I'm sure you'll chime in when China tries to take over the world, "how could we have let them have that technology?".

And pray tell, since when was China interested in taking over the world? China has 2500 years of history behind it and they actually had the capability to do just that during 900 of those years. The military and economic prowess of the Han, Tang, and Ming dynasties were unrivaled except for the Roman Empire, a contemporary of Han. In case you failed to notice, they also built a rather large defensive wall 2200 years ago and constantly maintained it over the centuries. That in itself is a polar opposite of a offensive minded military mentality. Fact is, the Chinese have always been more concerned with securing their own border regions and be a regional superpower as opposed to a global one. They have shown little interest in establishing bases of operations and conquering territories 6000 miles from their homeland unlike the western powers.

The idea of a modern Chinese empire out to conquer the globe or be the 'world's policeman' is downright laughable.

It's a fairly small deck by modern carrier standards for modern jets. They would likely have to use an aircraft with thrust vectoring and vertical take-off capability such as the Harrier. Or possibly load it up with small, high-speed attack helicopters? But I don't know that China has either of those yet.

They have their best origami experts working on that.

origami is Japanese. lol

The term fixed wing applies to a standard jet plane as opposed to a rotary wing, or helicopter.

The existing Su-33's would have no trouble operating off a jump-carrier due to their vairable-geometry (sweepable) wings.

Luke/War -Odd to give the space as enough for 30 fixed-wing craft. I would assume they'd use folding wings like everyone else???

Have you ever try getting anything box into the box that was packed in China? That explains it.

Everyone is laughing at this. Just give them a few years (remember...where China was .... as a whole - 25 years ago?) .

With Obama dismantling our forces........and these guys on the ascendency....this is a serious threat. And this article does not discuss any of the other stuff they are building.

caljam71- Everyone is laughing at this

Just to hide the crying for those of us that are smart enough to know that this is no joke.

You mean it is a glorified diving board? The Chinese always did dominate in Olympic diving... LOL

Looks like the ol' Skee-Ball ramp design to me.

they are all busy working on the ships from the movie 2012

Nice smog filled backdrop also.lol

Course they have plenty of workers to build ships but there is just one problem.

They don't have enough ladders.

Sure they have plenty of workers, but not the knowledge to build the ships. I'm sure some greedy Americans will help with that soon.

Nothing wrong with the Chinese people, in fact I have Chinese relatives...

It is the PLA that has to be changed by the Chinese people themselves, before it is too late...

I just spent two months on a Communist Farming Camp in Isan, Thailand...

Most of the Asian Communist are against the Chinese Communist polices of their; enslavement of minorities (non Hon), invasion of neighboring countries, and the eradication of Buddhist Monks and other religions...

BTY - I have lived in Asia for years and seen first hand what the Chinese bussiness polices are...

Actually, that's not true. They have the aircraft and apparently have successfully deployed an operational catapult system.

They do, however, have an ever bigger problem - no real anti-aircraft tech. It doesn't help to have an aircraft carrier if it can't be defended. Carriers are pretty vulnerable without advanced air defense systems. This thing will be sunk in the first moments of any conflict it goes active in.

Which basically makes it one big paper-weight until they develop the technology to defend it.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19710040

The 300m (990ft) Liaoning - named after the province where it was refitted -
is a refurbished Soviet ship purchased from Ukraine.

For now the carrier has no operational aircraft and will be used for

Pics of the ship

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/chinas-first-aircraft-carrier-the-liaoning/2012/09/25/06cd105c-0716-11e2-a10c-fa5a255a9258_gallery.html#photo=3
training.

Those are "bilge pump" outlets mort. LOL. Every ship in the world has them. The idea of ship building is pretty simple....more places for water to go out than come in.

Bilge pumps......everyship afloat has them. You can add or pump out sea water to increase or decrease ballast to stabalize the ship while underway. Since its sea water it has to be pumped in and out regularly to prevent excess corrosion, then sailors (bilge rats) go in and clean and paint, then it starts all over again.

They won't blame the US for it sinking, they'll blame the Japanese.

Thanks guys for pointing out the obvious. :D

My comment was comic absurdity for an explanation as to why it's at the bottom of the pacific. I don't really care how it gets to the bottom. What matters is that it ends up there. ;)

Right, what good is an aircraft carrier without an aircap? Ask the Japanese on the results of 4 aircraft carriers at the "Battle of Midway" what it is like without an aircap.

Thailand has had a aircraft carrier for years...

But now no aircraft, the USED AV8S that were purchased by the Thai Navy from Spain in 2009 are now mostly on static display. Almost all are non-operational because of a shortage of spare parts...

Just a few Vietnam era helicopters are now being deployed off the carrier...

But the Thai Air Force is buying aircraft and weapons systems from Sweden...

The Thai Army bought APC's without engines from Russia...

Unfortunately the deal to purchase USED subs from Germany fell through... Ha! Ha!

No, no, the ramp is for skateboarding.

This style is similiar to what the british navy uses. To get away from longer take offs and bigger catapaults they use a ramp to increase lift to get planes airborne. The main issue is upon landing its more difficult to make a low level abort if you miss the cable with the ramp staring you in the face.

Azrancher,

The arresting gear is on the aft - angled runway, for normal fixed wing landings/traps...

The bow - ramp runway is used for rotor wing and VTOL aircraft landing...

For in-depth info and great pictures... see http://www.jeffhead.com/redseadragon/varyagtransform.htm

sell em? not his way....now give em away along with a bag of cash and an apology....well.................

Skateboard ramp on the front of a ship, looks pretty iffy to launch a plane off of.

53 in Texas - If Israel (and the US) doesn't act soon we may find out

Too Late the time to have done anything was when the US Ally Saudi Arabia was begging the US and or Israel to attack the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran. Of course President Obama blew off the US Ally Saudi Arabia repeatedly, pissing off the US Ally Saudi Arabia that they stated, "President Obama gave Iraq to Iran as a Gift on a Golden Platter" after President Obama's March 2009 Iran Policy (Appeasement) as seen by the Ayatollahs of Iran as the US negotiating from a position of Defeat.

So now the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran have created their own US NORAD or USSR Ural Mountain Complex that cannot be attacked by Conventional Weapons Systems, even the Deep Penetrator Bomb; and all the US Nuclear Weapons that could have done some damage are gone as verified by the USSR, after being negotiated away during the INF Treaty, SALT, START, etc.. So some brain fart came up with the idea of sending US Military Asymmetric Warfare to do Targeting and dropping one Deep Penetrator Bomb after another, with at one point this would be like attempting to drop a BB into a drinking straw from 10 feet up at an angle and any BB touching the sides or exploding would collapse the previous hole.

Those of us that have been watching the building of the PLAN, know that this Varyag, aka Shi Lang, Liaoning is actually a 21st Century Aircraft Carrier (except the hull) versus the 20th Century USN CVNs (Nimitz Class) and Future CVNs (Ford Class). We also know that thru automated systems that larger ships (NOT boats) do not need large crews, and sometimes smaller sizes are an advantage not a disadvantage (hiding movements, and being targets).

Also comparing Ship or Boat (Submarine) based Missiles is not even comparable to Land Based Missiles, due to the size limitations of Ship or Boat based Missiles. The land based (unlimited size) can have longer ranges and more capabilities than any ship or boat based missiles (size limits). You also cannot harden a ship or boat against a nuclear attack, like you can for land based missile silos. Also sinking a ship or boat in International Waters is not as bad as going into another and attacking them Sovereign Nation (those many Open Ocean "Accidents" with no repercussions). The same arguments apply to the USN losing the argument and the deployment of the land based Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces (INF). The same argument applies pertaining to Ship and Boat based ABMs, as to why President Obama backpeddled on not placing Land Based ABMs as President Bush wanted to (at Poland), so in December 2011 President Obama deployed land based US Military ABMs at Romania against the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's IRBM/ICBM Actual Capabilities.