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Family photo
Photos of Feng Jianmei on her hospital bed after a forced abortion have been circulating on the web. The photos were taken by her sister who in turn contacted the media about the story. The photos originally appeared in a local newspaper report online and then they were picked by netizens and distributed online.
Updated at 10:33 p.m. ET: China state media says city officials have apologized to Feng Jiamei and suspended three officials, the BBC reported.
Xinhua news said the Ankang city government will urge the county government to review its family planning operations, according to the BBC report.
BEIJING – Feng Jianmei says she was manhandled by seven people, some of them local family planning officials, some of whom she didn’t know.
Feng, 22 years old and seven months pregnant, was dragged out of her relative’s home, carried and shoved into a van that headed straight to a hospital on June 2, she told NBC News in phone interview.
She was blindfolded, thrown on a bed, and forced to sign a document that she couldn’t read with the blindfold still on her eyes. Then two shots were injected into her belly. Thirty hours later, on the morning June 4, she gave birth to a dead baby girl.
Feng is one of the many Chinese women who have been forced to have abortions under China’s strict one-child-only policy started in late 1970s to contain the country’s fast growing population, which has now topped 1.3 billion people.
One-child policy
China’s long time Communist leader Chairman Mao Zedong originally encouraged women to have as many children as possible during the Cold War-era when human power was believed to be an important force if war broke out. But the country’s rulers soon found it too difficult to feed the huge population – so they adopted a harsh policy that allows urban citizens to have only one child, and rural couples to have two, if the first child is a girl.
The policy has been carried out for more than three decades despite public opposition, from human rights activists to ordinary people. Thousands of years of Chinese culture fostered the belief that “more children is more blessing,” especially in remote and rural areas where the elderly lack adequate social benefits and depend on children as they grow old.
Government family planning officials are also under pressure to make sure their constituencies follow the quota of babies allowed. When there’s no clear law telling them what they can and cannot do, forced abortions, often on late-terms pregnancies, have become the norm, particularly for the poor who are unable to pay the hefty fines to have additional children.
Advocates on behalf of these women are usually ignored or face government repression. For example, Chen Guangcheng, the famous blind lawyer and human rights activist, represented victims of family planning abuse in Shandong Province. Chen was jailed for four years for his advocacy and put under house arrest until he recently escaped illegal detainment and fled to the U.S. last month.
There are no official figures of how many women in China unwillingly terminate pregnancies every year. “All Girls Allowed,” an organized founded by former 1989 student protest leader Chai Ling, claims there are 1.3 million forced abortions annually.
‘How can I agree to do that, as a mother?’
Feng Jianmei didn’t realize she wasn’t allowed to have a second child (her first daughter was born in 2007) since everyone else around her was permitted to have a second child. Both she and her husband Deng Jiyuan took for granted that they would have the same right. But the family planning office in Zengjiazhen, a small town in Shaanxi province in the heart of China, thought differently.
Through a rigorous and rigid household registration system designed to control population movement, the central government classifies all its citizens as either city dwellers or rural peasants. The registration, also known in Chinese as hukou, determines not only a citizen’s residence but also what kind of social services individuals are eligible for.
It is very difficult to change one’s hukou although there are many ways, including marrying a person with a different registration status, applying for a new status through one’s job, or paying an enormous sum of money.
The local family planning office decided that Feng wasn’t allowed to have a second child because she didn’t have the necessary permit – apparently she had failed to relocate her hukou to Zengjiazhen when she moved from her original province of Inner Mongolia.
But the couple says they had no idea their plan to have a second child was connected with Feng’s hukou.
They were given another option that would solve the problem: pay a fine of $6,400. But that was an impossible amount for the couple to afford – Deng is a migrant worker and Feng is a farmer.
“I told you, $6,400, not even a penny less. I told your dad that and he said he has no money,” the family planning official wrote to Deng in a text message that has been made public. “You were too careless, you didn’t think this was a big deal.”
Feng’s sister received the same warning; if they couldn’t afford to help pay the fine, it was only a matter of time before her sister had to get rid of the baby, whether she wanted to or not.
Things came to a head on June 2, but according to the local government, Feng agreed to the abortion.
The Zhenping Population and Family Planning Bureau released on June 11 an official stamped document, which says that “after government cadre’s repeated persuasion, Feng Jianmei agreed to have an abortion at 15:40 on June 2.”
“No, I didn’t agree to do it,” Feng told NBC News. “How can I agree to do that, as a mother?”
She sobbed when asked what happened next, and said she was too upset to think about it. She said all those officials who kidnapped her disappeared after the abortion, and she’s still suffering from a constant headache.
Two appalling photos of her were taken and posted online that show her lying in bed, looking weak and helpless, with a dead and bloody baby next to her. The photos were taken by her sister who in turn contacted the media about the story. The photos originally appeared in a local newspaper report online and then they were picked by netizens and distributed online.
‘If this evil policy is not stopped, this country will have no humanity’
Forced abortions in China are not new, but Feng’s story spread rapidly via social media, and outrage was immediate and unanimous. On Weibo, China’s Twitter-like microblogging site, netizens left thousands of angry comments, although many of the posts were quickly deleted by government censors.
“The purpose of family planning was to control population, but now it has become murder population,” wrote Li Chengpeng, a well-known Chinese writer. “It was a method to contain population, but now it is a way to make money. When you can make money by killing, what else are you afraid to do? A seven-month baby can think already. I want to ask the murderer, how do you face your own mother when you go home? If this evil policy is not stopped, this country will have no humanity.”
Zhao Chu, another writer, called it pure murder. “This is not about enforcing the policy, it is about depriving someone’s right to live. We avoid the nature of it by using a medical word ‘enforced abortion.’ For so long family planning seems like something completely irrelevant of human life. It’s like coal mining or digging mushrooms. Human life has become lifeless indexes, some cold, meaningless numbers.
“Also, pushed by heavy fines, the controversial policy has become profit-oriented activities that everyone hates. The worst victims are those of low-class rural people who have no power to fight. Their tears and cries are not heard by so called mainstream society and the victims become worse than the untouchables,” said Zhao.
Many called for the one-child policy to be outlawed. “We feel so sorry for the dead baby girl, we criticize those so-called law enforcers. But we should rethink the 30-year-long family planning policy. It’d be worth it if this could help to change the policy! We keep our eyes open!” commented user A-Kun on his Weibo page.
Even Hu Xijin, chief editor of Global Times, one of China’s most pro-government newspapers, criticized the forced abortion on his Weibo account.
“I strongly oppose the barbarous forced abortion to this 7-month-pregnant mother. Time has changed and the intensity of enforcing family planning has changed. We should promote civilized family planning,” Hu wrote.
But he added that he didn’t think the whole policy should be abolished. “Don’t use Hong Kong and Japan as an argument to deny China’s population policy. Those places are small and developed early, fed by the whole world’s resources. But the world resources cannot afford to feed a China with billions of people.”
‘This has damaged the image of family planning work’
NBC News tried to contact both town and city level family planning offices in Zengjiazhen and Ankang, but the calls went unanswered.
A report from Xinhua, China’s official government news agency, released on Thursday said that the Shaanxi Provincial Family Planning Committee has sent an investigation team to Zengjiazhen and requested local government to have the responsible parties held accountable.
“This has damaged the image of family planning work, and had an adverse effect on the society. The committee will resolutely prevent such things from happening again,” the Xinhua news report said.
Feng’s conversation with NBC News was interrupted three times by what she said were government cadres entering her hospital ward to talk.
When asked what she would do next or whether they will seek legal help, she uttered an answer in a very low voice: “I have no idea.”
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Reminds me of all the little girls planned parenthood and the Democrats support aborting with their opposition of the sex based abortion ban.
Yea, because voluntary and involuntary abortions are totally similar.
@Ruken,
They are to the baby. Whether they are murdered voluntarily or involuntarily.
The SCOTUS says otherwise, and FYI a fetus is not a baby.
Elliot & Proud: I am sorry, but you are both way off topic. If you do not believe in abortion teach your children not to seek it out as a solution to an unwanted pregnancy.
Now back on topic: This is the country that we trade with freely, but then complain about human right violations. Forcing someone to have an abortion is just wrong.
Again, for all you a-holes that have to point fingers...the issue is forcing someone to have an abortion against their will.
go get an education, so you can form a rational thought.
This is not about being pro-life or pro-choice. This woman was not given a very fair choice here. It sounds like she was forced to have an abortion because of a technicality. Forcing a woman to have an abortion is not what being pro-choice is about. Giving her all the options available is what is needed. This woman does not live in a free society, though.
What are we to do when the earth cannot support the number of people on it? [I'm not arguing for or against anything; I'm simply posing a very basic question.]
Look at Africa, they have widespread famine and starvation, but that doesn't stop families from pumping out 10+ kids.
Steve in WA
We are already there..."Living in the light" is the amount of people that the earth can support without digging for oil or other resources underground. This limit is considered 1 billion people, we are currently at 6.8 billion. The only thing that can correct this is a world war, or a plague of sorts...
I understand the abortion loving liberals doing business with china.
But why are the life loving conservatives doing business with evil china?
because they are hypcorites who do not REMOTELY practice what they preach.
MONEY trumps everything...and the world we live in shows it.
I support a womans right to choose, it's her body...and while I couldnt PERSONALLY have an abortion, I dont begrudge any woman who chooses not to be a baby factory if she doesnt want to be.
In China, there is no choice...and THAT is the biggest part of the problem.
If you are uber pro-life, and it doesnt matter whether you chose or not - then utlitize those uber morals, and stop supporting ANYONE who does what you morally oppose.
I suspect, none of you will or would...money trumps life, every damn time.
As such, a woman gets the right to decide if money is more important to her than a child as well.
Practice what you preach ALL AROUND, or STFU
HERE HERE!!!
It's amazing how the US's policy as of late has been to simply ignore atrocities when the money is right!
Sudan? What Sudan?
Darfur? Ummmmm....
Syria? Ask Russia and China, they seem to think it's not a problem...
Congo? Wouldn't want to upset the deal China has with getting oil and mineral resources from them
Georgia? I guess Putin needs another vacation home...we shouldn't worry...they just need some elbow room...I wonder if they want Czechoslovakia as well?
Somalia? Do they have oil? Nope...then not our problem.
Anyway, I know it won't happen, but the US needs to pull China off of MFN-status, file a complaint with the WTO regarding China's abusive and inhumane treatment of its people and subsequently remove our endorsement of their membership to the organization. Lastly, we need to remove the ability for US business to be able to deduct expenses associated with outsourcing to China and doubly tariff and quota Chinese-made goods to at least the same levels that they do for American goods.
If we don't want to support evil, then we must do your part not to support evil. Simply complaining about it and doing nothing to back it up only shows weakness.
Mark "The only thing that can correct this is a world war, or a plague of sorts..."
or...innovation, creation, motivation to do better
helping each other survive, rather than creating conditions that ensure you win above everyone else
doing unto others as you'd have done to you...
or praying to your christian god that he wipes everyone but "your people" out so you have more to your greedy self.
you choose.
Well said @Seriously? No...Really?!
Where are the sanctions? All tied up in economics. I love capitalism.
Any of you multicultural liberal idiots still think all cultures are equal?
Reminds me of your cheap ass shopping at Wal Mart to get the lowest prices on cheap Chinese junk. So in the end YOU ARE supporting abortion, even funding it!
Seriously "It's amazing how the US's policy as of late has been to simply ignore atrocities when the money is right!"
it drives me NUTS when people say stuff like this, as if it hasnt been our national policy since the inception of this nation...i mean, we slaughtered off the natives - and put the rest on reservations so we could "manifest destiny"...and you're bellyaching about us ignoring atrocities around the world?
im shocked you didnt add in their the faux concern for the all the poor people in Iraq that Saddam was so bad to that required us to invade, occupy and generally waste billions of dollars in....
read some history books, learn something...we are only motivated by what profits us.
perhaps this christian nation could be more like christ, less like satan?
We need to revoke China's most favored nation trade status until they do something about their human rights abuses across the board. Seven months is not a fetus any more, it is a baby. At seven months the baby can survive outside the womb very easily. In fact, it is widely accepted that at 26 weeks or older the baby can survive outside the womb and grow up without any permanent medical problems as a result. This is the reason that late term abortions have been banned except under certain very limited circumstances here in the US and in most other countries. While I do not personally believe in abortion except under certain circumstances like rape, incest, or to protect the life of the mother, I do not believe in forcing m beliefs onto others. I fully support the idea that it is a woman's right to make the choice for herself up to that 26 week cutoff. What was done to this woman in China was, however, not even an abortion in my mind, it was the murder of a baby. I do not believe in China's forced abortion policy and, while I can understand their reasoning for it, I have problems with their one child policy as well. The same way no woman should be forced to have a baby she does not want, a woman should not be forced to abort one she does. China will not change it's policies or it's generally abysmal record on human rights unless they are forced to. One way to do this is to make it economically damaging not to change. By revoking their most favored nation trade status we can hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book. This will get their attention faster than anything else we could do, particularly if we could convince the rest of the developed world to do the same.
whoever "pumped you out" forgot to send some humanity with you. I'm all for one child per family, only so many can get on the life raft, but there has to be some way other than ripping a child out of it's mother. "fyi,a fetus is not a baby"?. FYI, that is open to debate and I don't think your opinion carries anymore weight than anyone elses. Hopefully, you'll get your vasectomy before you reproduce.
peanut - equal? no...never thought that. but all cultures have the right to be as stupid as they want...they have those equal rights.
and americans, dont hold ANY moral authority at all ...so I wouldnt be thumping your chest too loudly.
I feel bad for the slaves in china, that are enslaved by american capitalists...we are awesome people arent we?
Ruken says "The SCOTUS says otherwise, and FYI a fetus is not a baby."
Really? If space explorers on another planet found an organism like a fetus, what would it be called?
Life.
Jessica,
This is what we are being taught in college is the "living in the Light" Theory, and the professor is extremely liberal and not a conservative evangelical...so I don't know where all your spite comes from. The ways that they explained the decrease to happen is a shared theory in the Ivory Tower. Do what you want with China, but the real problem in India is not slowing down, not to mention the incredible birth rate in Africa. The only thing in Africa that is controlling the population is AIDS and disease. But feel free to kill the messenger...
TheAirdog -- There is one thing for sure: We will not know the difference 50 years from now.
It is obvious that China has some very draconian ideas about societal mores. Just imagine what it would be like if the Muslims take over China... eh?
liberial or conservative,
i will say this.
that is goverrnment run health care for you!!!
how do you like it now!?
I am pro choice. But what happened to the 7 month old BABY is wrong. She was no longer considered a fetus but a baby who could have lived even at 7 months outside the womb. Sickening. I am totally pro choice but this was totally WRONG. I will never support acts like this.
@Steve In WA
"What are we to do when the earth cannot support the number of people on it? [I'm not arguing for or against anything; I'm simply posing a very basic question."
An interesting perspective:
1. There are about 149 Trillion Square Meters of Land On Earth
http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2001/DanielChen.shtml
2. There are about 7 Billion people on earth now
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
3. The annual growth rate currently is about 1.09% (thankfully trending down)
http://www.indexmundi.com/g/g.aspx?c=xx&v=24
4. At the above rate the world population would double about every 64 years
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubling_time
If the current rate of growth was not dropping – we would see in a little over 14 doubling periods (~900 years) that every square meter of land on earth would be occupied by one person.
Of course this would never happen due to resource depletion, war, disease, space settlement, zero population growth policies enacted (Logan’s Run) and/or many other situations that contribute to zero to negative population growth.
anyone who states "FYI a fetus is not a baby" while looking at a photo of a dead BABY lying next to its mother is absolutely ludicrous and delusional!!!!! The term "fetus" refefrs to a stage of development not a childs lacking of humanity. also lets clarify, the worlds' problem is not lack of resources but the unequal distribution of them.
FORCED abortion is way different then choice abortion. When you are forced you have no choice. If you have no choice then it is time for a revolt
Hmm Forced Murder
Truly Sick and Evil
The right wants to force a woman to carry a fetus to term against her will regardless of how it harms her. China wants to force a woman to abort against her will regardless of how it harms her. Can someone remind me again what the difference is?
I will wholeheartedly agree with those who say that our planet already has more people than we can possibly support once we get substantially into the depletion cycle of certain critical raw resources, without which the trade-fueled level of economic lifestyle that we have enjoyed up until now, which has allowed for population growth far beyond rational or sustainable limits, plainly can not continue to exist, either in China, or even here at home either.
The way that it looks now from a vast majority to total local supply and logistics standpoint, is that the largest possible sustainable urban area, capable of sustaining its needs through locally-grown food, local manufacture of consumer goods as well as critical components such as refrigeration systems and HVAC units, and local logistics and supply mainly by small electrically-powered trucks and electric trains, is no larger than maybe 250,000 people, unless that city enjoys an over-abundance of renewable-source electric power-generation and/or access to a navigable waterway.
Worse yet, the kind of future described above will very likely be with us beginning in earnest by 2050 or 2060 as world oil supplies and world rare earth minerals supplies become all but depleted, and other critical raw materials like iron ore and natural gas will also be facing critical shortages by then too, while without some kind of onerous State population-control policy, our planet could see our population increasing to 12-14 Billion by 2100 too, with no possibility of feeding half of their children.
Phosphorus is a critical ingredient in fertilizer, and its production peaked 24 years ago. Already global phosphorus supplies are reaching deficient levels, with critical shortages forecast within the next two decades. Without phosphorus we can't grow high-yield crops. Without high-yield crops we can't feed the estimated 9.3 Billion people that our world is already forecast to have by 2050 either.
Forced abortion in China, everyone wrings their hands. Perhaps there is a more-humane way? How about forced sterilization after a 2nd child is born instead??? Make no mistake, all of us, all over the world, are all together, riding a runaway train, that is going to crash and kill a whole lot of our descendents unless we are smart enough to get the thing stopped and even reverse course, before the unthinkable happens.
Anyone who believes otherwise I would encourage you to read a recent book published last year by the Senior Research Fellow at the Post-Carbon Institute, Richard Heinberg, entitled "The End of Growth", where he goes into 300 pages worth of detail covering what is going to happen as the economic raw resources that have enabled population and economic growth to this point become increasingly depleted, all too soon as it turns out. Chapter summaries from the book are available here:
http://www.postcarbon.org/end-of-growth-chapters/
There must be a more-humane way of stopping and even reversing world population growth than forced abortion, so if you have any better ideas, now would be a good time to discuss them.
In the past, world leaders who committed genocide against their people were condemned to death. What is the difference between them and China? Genocide is genocide. They seem to be so concerned with feeding the growing population, thus the reason for the law, but this mom/family will need so much counseling for something she will never get over! Obviously she didn't "consent" to an abortion or the government would not be constantly interrupting her conversations with NBC and trying to cover up their misdeeds. If they can get rid of a child so easily, they certainly don't care about an adult whom they could claim was responsible. I'd be worried if I was involved with the "kidnapping" because these people will be disposed of just as easily.
Also, pro-choice or pro-abortion stances have nothing to do with this issue. She was FORCED to do this and since China is not a democratic nation, she was not given the choice either way. Complain all you want about whatever side of the issue you support but in the end be grateful that YOU HAVE A CHOICE on your side of the issue. I'm so sorry for her, her husband and for this baby that they will never know.
Excuse me. I read this three times and can't figure out what you're saying.
To my knowledge there is no law/bill/organization/etc. in the US who offers or espouses gender selective abortions. None. You are either pro life--no abortions or pro choice--woman's right to choose. I have heard NOTHING from ANY organization saying that only girls are to be aborted because boys are better. This nation would be instantly up in arms about that--we have too many educated, working females for that to ever become a widespread reality here in the US. Only in a male-superior culture where education of females is considered 'unnecessary' would such a scenario happen. Female empowerment is the greatest weapon in this ongoing fight--teach these women that they are not inferior to men and watch things change.
The difference is murder, plain and simple. Here we have Roe vs Wade making it legal to murder innocent unborn babies and now we have sex discrimination abortions which also murders these babies. Does it make sense to do this when there's all manner of birth control out there? It doesn't to me. The problem is that too many women wail and moan that the government should provide them with contraceptives and abortions. Why don't these same women take responsibility for themselves and buy their $9/mo birth control pills to prevent these atrocities from happening? I am thoroughly disgusted with these women and their whining and demands for entitlement. Be an adult and on your own 2 feet. This old senior isn't about to pay your way when you have no conscience and no brains when it comes to getting pregnant then aborting the baby.
To all you so called pro life people. When you are willing to have someones unwanted fetus implanted inside of you, then you have the right to tell another human what to do. Your idea that you know better then another what is best for them is typical of those who are just plain ignorant. Call me whatever you like, it matters not as I am happy with who I am. I don't need a make believe god or other deity to make me complete. I pity you and your offspring for their forced obedience to a nonexistent being.
Jessica-1170252, you are just a sad excuse for a human. You spout bull @!$%# and make claims that are so outlandish that its almost funny. I hope you go meet your god soon and save the rest of us your self righteous indignation.
Thank you KevinR....well said.
Jessica-
Education is Key!!!
Arguing for abortion as a means of population control is very Stalinesque.
Think about what you are suggesting--very creepy, yet, oddly familiar.
forced abortion, coming soon to a country near you. if we don't control our population this problem will spread globally, Constitution be dammed we won't have a choice and it will become required for our species survival since we don't seem to show any self control or forethought.
@lolfattynerdswhoknew
Lets see: Define harm. "natural childbirth" does not harm (ask your mom) where as China's methods actually could kill mom and child. But to your argument.... "forced" to carry to term... may not benefit the mom but it gives the child a chance.... China results in "damage" to mom and the child has no chance.... I'm not sure what world you like to live in but give the child a chance....
I don't know what you're smoking but women die in childbirth all the time. Now it's not as bad as it used to be but claiming it's not harmful is just plain ignorant.
So the right doesn't have a problem forcing women to do things against their will? Are you pro-rape too?
The Chinese have 'death rooms' where babies are brought and left until they die. Now, I understand the emotions and rationale from both sides of the aisle. The question that begs an answer, is it more humane to starve a child to death due to lack of food? China suffered massive famines, so bad that cannibalism was practiced. The phrase 'long pig' was used to refer to human flesh.
Girl babies were less than worthless and still are in many instances. Not just in China but in India as well.
I totally agree with other posters who suggest that anyone seeking government benefits should first have to show proof of some form of birth control. And the child tax credit should be done away with. People should be encouraged to WAIT until they are financially capable of taking care of children before they bring any into this world...
Unfortunately not knowing the law does not negate the law as it pertains to the person who does not know the law.
On the other hand the one child policy has been ongoing for 30 years and has been known about even outside of China... so ... hmmm
Not saying what happened or is happening is right or wrong.... but sometimes there are folks who go to other countries and try to foist their beliefs on others there, especially the anti-abortion activists/folks, putting others in harms way. Just saying.....
China does not have unlimited land space and they do have a lot of people to house, feed and educate, plus they do need a lot of land to cultivate/farm for food. So with their overcrowding and a generation of young people looking for work, the Chinese have been branching out outside their borders, buying land and setting up factories and other businesses there and using their own people to do the work supplemented by some of the local labor force. Look at Hong Kong for example... so many people so little land space to where they build upwards ...all those skyscrapers. And this is not only happening in Hong Kong either.
Think that that sort of policy would not be adopted here if we became as grossly overpopulated as in China? Weren't there black women and other minorities and people with disabilities who were sterilized against their will and or without their knowledge here too, as a means of controlling that population? Weren't slave women bred against their will to increase the slave stock and for profit here too? How about those new anti-reproductive choice and anti- contraception laws that have been passed at the state level and and the new ones that are now being pushed through congress at the federal level to undo the Roe V Wade, and which would force those girls and women who are pregnant because of rape or incest etc to carry the fetus to term or face prison time? In some Southern States having a miscarriage can get you jail time if I am not mistaken..... Just saying....
But then there are those here who have always been or are more interested in the fetus rather than the baby after it is born, as they seem to be encouraging folks to have many babies/children with their anti- contraceptive, anti-reproductive rights laws and their anti- pregnancy prevention and anti- sexually transmitted disease prevention being taught in schools stance. How about a little starvation of that newborn and the mother as they are now even anti- public safety nets/anti-school lunches for poor kids, and anti- WIC and anti- healthcare for babies/children etc as they talk about cutting these programs to the bone or defunding them.
Regarding Africa... that is a very large continent and perhaps because of or with all the culling of the populations there that has been ongoing for ever with all the deaths from wars, conflicts, violence, diseases and natural disasters and from povery and hunger etc folks therefore feel the very basic need to replicate themselves. If there has been an increase in birthrate then perhaps on the other hand this sort of increase in birthrate oftentimes happens especially after a war or big disaster as human beings seem to try to replace that which was lost or as a means of making sure that the family and or family name continues. Plus with the high infant mortality....
There is also that little contraceptive thing too, as some folks may be anti- contraceptives due to their religious beliefs. It may also be a lack of education regarding family planning and even access to contraceptives (and ob/gyn) care especially out in the rural areas, although inroads are being made regarding this problem in areas where there is stability or some semblance of peace/absence of conflict etc. UNICEF or one of those groups have been working with mothers/women in many of these countries teaching them so that they can have a better birth/survivability outcome if I am not mistaken.
Haiti, for example, even after the big earthquake, have a lot of church groups that are there as NGOs and some are anti-contraceptives even although that country is beyond poor and children are starving and there are very few if any jobs to speak of. It was noted that folks live on about 2 dollar or so per day if I am not mistaken- maybe even less.
There was an article about the grinding poverty in Haiti, the lack of food, healthcare and especially housing etc and folks chopping down trees including fruit trees for firewood and yet there was one small area where there were 7 churches... LOL One would have thought these churches would have built housing for the people instead of churches.... anyhoo, the article also indicated that folks were not being encouraged to use condoms (or other forms of birthcontrol) rather they were being encouraged to practice abstainance... LOL
So here we are with our own scarily dramatic increase in poverty - since our economy was done in by those financial folks in 2008 - and even as the top 1-10% get wealthier and the rest lose everything including the ground their homes were on, while the top 1% now have even more wealth than the wealth of the remaining 60% of the whole country combined per reports, and while the folks in the middle get poorer joining the lower economic groups yet the constant talk and call by republicon polititians and the teaparty folks is for austerity and deep cuts in goods and services etc to the folks in the middle and poor, including raising taxes on them, but on the other hand that we should give these 1-10% even more tax breaks because they create the jobs.... you know those jobs that they have been outsourcing and or creating overseas.... LOL
Solution to China's problem....1. How about dragging all those officials from all over the country to the head office or where-ever and do inservices regarding the one child policy. 2. Set down firm rules, regulations and oversight for the officials to follow and have an agency/bureau where the citizens may report or bring their complaints regarding their treatment by the hands of those in charge of the policy in their community. 3. How about doing public announcements about the one child policy. Perhaps after all these years folks need a refresher course or reminder? Nice to remind the populace the reason for the one child policy too... that helps. Just saying..
Peace....
@Ruken - most of the famine in Africa is man made. Civil war and anti-western beliefs cause much of the starvation we see in Africa.
War destroys transportation infrastructure, it makes food cost more and destroys crops and forces farmers off their land.
If you don't believe me read about the Guinea Savannah in Africa. Both the UN FAO and World Food Bank report that Africa is a huge under developed food producer.
Wondering why Elliot's original post was collapsed. Saw no reason why it should have been. Same with Jessica's. Do we collapse people we don't agree with? Just wondering...
This story is not here in the US, this in CHINA.
Um, excuse me. The woman in this article has one child, thought the government would allow someone in her socioecomic status one more. However, the fact that her socioeconomic status was never adjusted after she moved from a poor province to a middle-class province made the government decide that she should not have that child and they forced her to abort. SHE WANTED TO KEEP THE CHILD. THE GOVERNMENT DECIDED THEY DID NOT WANT HER TO HAVE THE CHILD.
YOU are not paying anyone's way--she is in CHINA. Not the US. She is not 'whining' about 'entitlement' she's upset that someone MURDERED her baby.
While this story is tragic and inhuman to do someone that way. I can't say that I oppose the one child policy. At 6 billion plus people and growing rapidly we are going to reach critical mass before long. I realize this is a very touchy subject but we as a plant ( fantasy I know) have to face the reality of the very real problem of overpopulation.
Tragic.
My wife and I were on a program to adopt from China. Spent thousands and thousands. The "wait" time initially went from 20 mos +/-, to after 3 years being over 4-5 more years and growing at the rate of and additional month for every month in between (effectively meaning we'd never get any closer to adopting).
Finally we just gave up - it almost felt like a money making scheme as during our wait we'd have to keep up visas (that will never get used), homestudies, fees, etc.
And then to read this.....
As the mom of two daughters, both born in China, I can tell you the wait was totally worth it.
There are thousands of children that aren't tiny babies that are begging to be adopted in this country, why do you have to go to China and wait years to adopt?
To put it in as harsh, but realistic terms as possible, BP, it's because most of the older kids waiting for adoption in this country are already completely screwed up by their biological parents. They've been molested, abused, born drug addicted, etc.
Some people want to raise a child and have a normal family - not have to deal with a life that someone else has already damaged irreparably. That's why people adopt infants from other countries.
The US is headed in the opposite direction if the right wing of the GOP gets their way. They'll be rounding up women and incarcerating them to prevent abortions. Forbiding pregant women from leaving the country. etc etc. Just making abortion in the US illegal won't be enough if it is available in Canada and Europe.
Personally I think the one child/two child policy would be a good place to start in this country, for welfare recipients. If you can't afford to support your kids, then why should we?
Personally I think the one child/two child policy would be a good place to start in this country, for welfare recipients. If you can't afford to support your kids, then why should we?
Or just require birth control to get assistance. Go get your shot, implant, etc., and you're clear to get help if you qualify for as long as the birth control is good. If you no longer need help, you can let the birth control wear off and have more kids. Throw in free sterilization for anyone who wants it, and start educating about the subject of birth control in grade school. Then we can start to get a handle on overpopulation.
I do think a limit- maybe 3 or 4 kids to start out- would be a good idea. If we can avoid the forced abortion situation, that is.
Is it really any wonder why China would support a murderous dictatorship in Syria which kills babies without regard to human life? If it's easy to slaughter their own children then it must be quite easy to support the butcher of others elsewhere.
The Chinese government IS, WAS and ALWAYS Will Be, Evil. But the best part is we trade with the evil doers on a daily basis while they butcher their own and steal the jobs needed to support American Families who love and honor their children.
Simple question: "Why are we in China and doing business with them?"
Answer: Corporate influence
BP - The adoption laws in this country protect the bio parents and not the adoptive parents. Many of us looking to adoption to complete our families are not willing to risk losing the children we fall in love with to the bio parents. As soon as the US laws value the adoptive parent perhaps more will adopt locally but, until that time, others will adopt internationally, as we did (from China) over 18 years ago. And I agree with JJ; the wait was totally worth it.
is this what sandra fluke ment when she said she wanted the govt to pay for birth control?
@inmissouri
the reason the country we live in is growing is not because people are having to many children in fact, based on the number of children each person has, the population should decline. The truth is immigration cause the population to rise.
I thought they were going to have a picture of a baby girl whose parents killed her because of the one-child policy, when they needed a son to care for them in their old ages. Actually, this picture could show any patient recovering from anesthesia.
it's sad that this rule needs to be, but she did break the rules and ignorance is not an excuse to break the law. also, i like the rule and wish everyone would enforce it....the last thing we need is more idiots ruining this universe.
@ Charles...mo bettah you maki baby time...in Hawai'i that means too bad your parents didnt abort you before you were born so we would be one less idiot int he world already
This wins the rhetoric award for the most useless/ignorant comment of the year.
A seven month old baby is murdered by the state. Humanity cannot afford this.
Boycot China. I am disgusted.
Baida- that's true, and I believe I read somewhere that the first generation or two of immigrants tend to have larger families than those that are 3rd or more generation Americans. Even if we closed our borders, a gradual decrease in population - especially of those that are raised to think government assistance is better than working for a living- would be a good thing. The less people we have using our planet's resources, the more resources we have available so everyone has a chance at getting their basic needs met.
Really, Charles????--she broke a rule that was confusing and based on not registering. If she had understood things, she would have qualified to have a second child????? Really, so abort a 7 month pregnancy--I am for a woman's right to choose, but a 7 month abortion is killing a baby that can survive outside of the womb--we are not talking about a few cells that haven't even attached to the side of the uterine wall yet.
'inmissouri'--most immigrants work very hard. In fact, people illegally here, work very hard, pay taxes and do not get refunds or collect social security, even though they pay into it--so they are actually paying into our society without the benefits offered to those of us who are citizens or legal resident aliens. Your stereotypes are so narrow-minded. I live on the border. Solutions here are not simplistic no matter what idiot Jan Brewer of Arizona would have us beleive, or what Mr. hot air, blustering Arpaio thinks. It is very complicated and simple, knee-jerk, emotional solutions that are mostly about racism and ignorance do not and will not work.
So I guess all the killing that has happened on the earth during genocides was okay by you, Charles, because those people "broke the laws"; never mind that the laws were made by fascists.
And no--twitbrain-'OMG really people' that is NOT what Sandra Fluke meant when she was talking about the provision of birth control. Try reading the full reports and watching something other than Faux news.
Genocide, in every sense of the word.
Where's Waldo, and for the corporate influence you can thank Bill Clinton, he granted China a most favored nation status which opened the door for reduced tarriffs and greater access to the US economy. And he granted this status even though China has many human rights issues such as this one.
Why are we concerning ourselves with China's issues? Trying to play World Police again? And as for human rights issues, that is not our business either.
Look in your own backyard and feed the hungry and homeless and their children in this country. And as for the church jerks in this country , mind your own business, period. You self-righteous bastards just screw everything up and help nothing.
Help starts here at home. Leave the Chinese to themselves to take care of their people.
Janine, you help support the poor because they are the ones to die in the wars that the Republicans leaders so love. The rich never serve. So the more babies born in this country and better the wars.
CRYING SHAME, You are one selfish SOB: I have trouble believing you actually mean what you wrote. Those as you called them (completely screwed up) are the ones who need help. With your attitude I hope you never have the opportunity to spread your sickness to innocent children, children who may or may not have suffered from abuse. They are VICTIMS and need help. Please look up the word "Compassion" and then try to understand what compassion is.
See copy of crying shames statement below;
(Crying shame To put it in as harsh, but realistic terms as possible, BP, it's because most of the older kids waiting for adoption in this country are already completely screwed up by their biological parents. They've been molested, abused, born drug addicted, etc.Some people want to raise a child and have a normal family - not have to deal with a life that someone else has already damaged irreparably. That's why people adopt infants from other countries.)
Nixon opened China to U.S. Corporate Big Money if you really want the facts of just how we came to be in China. It took less than forty years to do the damage which has been done. There isn't or hasn't been a U.S. politician with the balls to tell China to stuff it. Over thirty five years of one way trade with them. Not ONE YEAR of trade surplus in OUR favor. But we're going beyond the argument here. It's about the slaughter of innocents. It's beyond politics. The Chinese Communists, YES Communists, a word usually not connected with the murdering heathens, but should ALWAYS be. They are dark hearted pragmatists with one goal in mind, CHINA. The Chinese government should never be trusted in ANY negotiation. They consistently break or circumvent SIGNED agreements. They are NEVER to be trusted.
Are we any different, our country allows selective abortions.
@Cassandra-854239
That's one of two pictures the article mentions. The other picture is supposedly of her holding her dead and bloody baby girl. My guess is that picture was too shocking for this news article, but THAT is the image that has people outraged.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So what !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Republicans are trying to force pregnancies in the US !!!!!!! No more birth control. No more Choice !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Subliminal, you can't have it both ways. It is the churches that feed and clothe the poor in this country, beginning in their own neighborhoods. How much are you doing? Your little icon lets me know where your hatred and unhappiness come from. You would have a lot more peace if you would switch sides. By the way, how did you get off onto the subject of churches? Maybe I missed something?
bltdriver - you realize of course increased tariffs are a tax increase on buyers in the US? Or don't you?
China doesn't pay them the American consumer does
Grover Norquist should be against this haven't heard a peep from him - or maybe he doesn't care who pays as long as it isn't his beloved 1%
Interesting that we condemn China's human rights policies when it comes to abortions or depriving religious practices, but yet we are in full support of infringing on human rights in China when it comes to profiting and exploiting their labor force, by being in full support of outsourcing to maximize corporate profits. I guess our values come with a price attached these days.
I didn't say anything about illegal or legal, just stating that I'd read something about how recent immigrants tend to have larger families than those that have been in the US for more generations. In college, I had an internship where I worked with immigrants from various countries, and they were great people, hard workers. I am concerned that if the world's population continues to increase at the rate it has been, it won't be long before we have more people than the world can provide food for (even taking money and politics out of the equation). I don't want me, or my kids (two of them) to have to live in a world like that.
No, they're screwed up because of people like you who look at and treat them like damaged goods.
Newsflash, if you're spending thousands of dollars and waiting years and years to adopt a child from another country then you're already pretty damn far from being a "normal family".
Wow, Collapsing my comments for say exactly what it is, Genocide. Losers.
They are not only killing their people but us and our pets too....I don't want anything from China and Bush should never have started trading and borrowing money from them.
The time for birth control is BEFORE THERE IS A CHILD......NOT AFTER. Then, it's murder cold and simple.
The one child policy is a GREAT policy. We have too many people on this planet and its the NUMBER ONE cause of pollution and is unsustainable. The rest of the world needs to follow suit and get more people on birth control and STOP REWARDING PEOPLE FOR HAVNG CHILDREN THUROUGH TAX BREAKS. Forced abortions isnt right.. but if you're irresponsible enough to have an unwanted pregnancy in this day and age and your against aboriton you should have to pay a stiff fine.
Agreed with the limit, but at this point I think it should be two.
However enforcement would be somewhat tricky, and prone to corruption. In addition, the USA only has 300M people, and the main population problems are going to start in Africa.
Regardless, I think the Child Tax Credit is stupid, and needs to be immediately repealed.
It's a failed policy, China is going to suffered a massive gender gap now. People who said this is going to be effective are fools, because they don't target boys, but only girls, so China is going to suffer an issue of lack of females and because of that they are going to be a huge amount of rapes, slavery, and female child market in which you can sell stolen babies for a grand profit.
Let them keep their one-child policy for about another 100 years. At that point, there won't be enough women to sustain their population and the country will become desolate and barren.
Hobgoblin-392509
As much as I agree that the world is over populated, I also believe in the rights of living creatures. Why were we given the tools to make children? Oh yeah, to make children.
It wont take that long before they'll have a bunch of men with no wives, a little pissed off and lots of time on their hands. Nothing scares evil dictators more than educated, pissed off men with nothing to keep them busy.
It's a difficult problem. Humans are programmed to reproduce, but without population controls of some kind or other, we're breeding ourselves out of house and home. In another hundred years, we'll all be living in resource-deprived slums fighting over water and jobs.
If people won't stop over-breeding on their own, do we stop them forcibly? That brings up all manner of civil rights issues, but what's the alternative?
Education and laws that give equal protection to women does a fantastic job with reducing birth-rates.
China's method, like India, is leading to a massive gender gap which is going to decimate their population and screw up their economy and foreign policy decisions for at least a few generations to come.
Eugenics and forced abortions are twisted and inhumane. If you think that what China is doing is pragmatic and the correct approach, educate yourself on the link I posted above and other studies like it.
Here's an idea... Why don't they commit sacrilege, and make the fathers have a vasectomy after having their one child? Maybe I'm being too logical, but isn't that much better than putting a pregnant woman through the emotional pain of having an abortion?
Population control is eventually going to become necessary throughout the world. Either we do it voluntarily, or mother nature will take care of it for us. Do we really want to see genocide by starvation, pandemic and/or wars fought over natural resources like clean water, etc? You may not like what China is doing, but to its credit, it does recognize the danger of an uncontrolled population explosion. They're just doing it the wrong way. Stop the problem at the source; not after the fact.
According to population statisticians, there are already 30 million more males than females in China. And there was an article not that long ago on MSN where a human trafficking ring was busted trafficking infant girls out of Vietnam, headed for China, there to be purchased as 'domestic labor' for Chinese households who would then marry their sons off to the female specifically raised to be his bride. No bride-price or dowry needed.
And now we see why Chinese women will travel off mainland China to Westernized Taiwan to give birth, and why they come here via birth tourism to give birth here in the States. They want to keep things like this from happening to their children, and to give their children an 'out' later when this collapses their society.
I agree we are becoming over populated and there needs to be a limit. Two children per family. Gotta love when you hear about a family on welfare with 5 kids hanging on the mother and complaining because she can't feed her kids but is pregnant again. Have to draw the line somewhere. Look at Octomom. Terrible situation for those kids.
Why collapse my post before I even posted it???
I will wholeheartedly agree with those who say that our planet already has more people than we can possibly support once we get substantially into the depletion cycle of certain critical raw resources, without which the trade-fueled level of economic lifestyle that we have enjoyed up until now, which has allowed for population growth far beyond rational or sustainable limits, plainly can not continue to exist, either in China, or even here at home either.
The way that it looks now from a vast majority to total local supply and logistics standpoint, is that the largest possible sustainable urban area, capable of sustaining its needs through locally-grown food, local manufacture of consumer goods as well as critical components such as refrigeration systems and HVAC units, and local logistics and supply mainly by small electrically-powered trucks and electric trains, is no larger than maybe 250,000 people, unless that city enjoys an over-abundance of renewable-source electric power-generation and/or access to a navigable waterway.
Worse yet, the kind of future described above will very likely be with us beginning in earnest by 2050 or 2060 as world oil supplies and world rare earth minerals supplies become all but depleted, and other critical raw materials like iron ore and natural gas will also be facing critical shortages by then too, while without some kind of onerous State population-control policy, our planet could see our population increasing to 12-14 Billion by 2100 too, with no possibility of feeding half of their children.
Phosphorus is a critical ingredient in fertilizer, and its production peaked 24 years ago. Already global phosphorus supplies are reaching deficient levels, with critical shortages forecast within the next two decades. Without phosphorus we can't grow high-yield crops. Without high-yield crops we can't feed the estimated 9.3 Billion people that our world is already forecast to have by 2050 either.
Forced abortion in China, everyone wrings their hands. Perhaps there is a more-humane way? How about forced sterilization after a 2nd child is born instead??? Make no mistake, all of us, all over the world, are all together, riding a runaway train, that is going to crash and kill a whole lot of our descendents unless we are smart enough to get the thing stopped and even reverse course, before the unthinkable happens.
Anyone who believes otherwise I would encourage you to read a recent book published last year by the Senior Research Fellow at the Post-Carbon Institute, Richard Heinberg, entitled "The End of Growth", where he goes into 300 pages worth of detail covering what is going to happen as the economic raw resources that have enabled population and economic growth to this point become increasingly depleted, all too soon as it turns out. Chapter summaries from the book are available here:
http://www.postcarbon.org/end-of-growth-chapters/
There must be a more-humane way of stopping and even reversing world population growth than forced abortion, so if you have any better ideas, now would be a good time to discuss them.
#1.30 - Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:52 PM MDT
Really, we should give tax breaks to people who don't have children - very hefty tax breaks.
People who are not supporting children are not as likely to need a tax break. Sad that our society seems to be leaning towards the idea that children are nothing but a burden. So grateful my parents never made me feel like i was a financial burden.
World population 1900----1.6 billion. World population now 7 billion. There are not enough natural resources to give that many people western life styles. Over a 6 billion population increase in a century where we slaughtered each other in unprecedented numbers. People live longer and with advances in medicine will live even longer. You can stretch a rubber band only so far.
Yet another reason that abortion should only be the decision of the woman.....always.
Tax breaks for childless couples might be one good way to encourage policy compliance, but what do we do with people like some folks on TV who have had 18 or 19 children already??? Figure if each one of their children just averages four kids, that is almost 150 offspring, who will then be wanting to build their own families starting by 2040, and by 2070 there could be 600 hungry grandkids too, or over-population gone awry! How about increasingly serious tax penalties for any couple that has more than two kids?
Some people are just not getting the seriousness of this topic. Our world can not possibly support any more population growth period. In fact, our world very well may not be able to support the number of people that exist now in another 40 years after world oil supplies are depleted.
All this talk about finding a more "humane" way to force people not have children. There is no "humane" way to do that. Once force of any type is used, it is inhumane.
I always like to ask people, who promote some "humane" way to control the population if they have children. Surprisingly, many of them will say, but they were "responsible" and had only one (maybe two). So what makes their children so special? Why should they have been allowed to be conceived and then born? I tell them that maybe if they had not have had their one child (or two children), then maybe somebody else could have. If they're so concerned about controling the population, then they would not have had that one child (or two children). They would've gotten themself sterilized. But the don't do that. It's all about them and their children. They're not doing anything to promote population growth. They're kids are "special." Well, no one else thinks so. They're just one or two more mouths that deplete the world's resources. Their existence will not make the world a better place for anyone, save their selfish parents. But their non-existence will have made what is supposedly an already over-crowded world a better place.
Religious fanatics and poor people are the over-breeders, while educated people know enough to limit the number of children they have. Access to good health care and education will help the poor. There is nothing you can do to help religious fanatics, as their invisible friend wants them to breed! breed! breed! children they can't feed or educate.
The people in China are not nearly as upset about the one-child policy as they are about the forced abortions, and the fact that the overwhelming majority of those children being aborted are girls because girls are 'worthless'.
This story is an egregious example because her second child was a girl--the couple already have one child, a girl. If their second child was a boy, they would have been fined but allowed to have it because the boy can carry on the family line and support the parents in their old age. A girl, by their societical mores, cannot. Therefore a loophole in technicality with registration of the mother's social class could be exploited and force an abortion.
Another problem is that the law is not applied evenly/fairly. These people are poor. This would never happen to one of the moneyed elite in China--no politician's wife would ever be dragged from her husband's home, thrown in the back of a truck and driven off to forcibly abort. The father would decide if he wants to pay the fine for another child, if he didn't the doctor would come and abort the child--still most likely against the mother's will but painkilling drugs would have been involved, she would never have been shown the dead baby unless the father was upset that she had had yet another girl and wanted to confront her with the results of her 'failure' to bear him a son. (In spite of the fact that it has been proven that the child's gender is determined y the male's sperm, not the female's egg, some women are still blamed for their failure' to have a boy.)
And it would never have reached the media.
That was not an abortion. That was murder at the hands of those government enforcers. They killed that baby with whatever was in those shots causing the baby to abort. Money or murder, take your pick for these people with no control over their own lives. The "investigators" will find that nothing was done wrongly.
I'm pro-choice and she did not have one. And she was into her 7th month. That is typically a viable fetus if born without force. These people are murdering their own.
It is a known fact that the Chinese have been slaughtering innocent people of all ages for centuries. Why should this story shock anyone? What I find more shocking is that American jobs are being exported to China so that this murderous nation (China) can continue such barbaric practices. It is time to say "Enough is enough" and bring American jobs back to the U.S. where they belong.
So, only rich people should be permitted to breed but not poor people? Okay, yeah. Well, since the poor can't feed or educate their children, maybe it's time to hyper-tax the "educated" rich people to do it. That would provide the resources for those poor people to become rich. But then, they would be a competitive threat to the already-"educated" rich. Guess that would mean having to dispose of the current rich.
Exactly how many people use more of the world's resources - the rich or the poor? Take an "educated" family of one-or-two "planned" children (you know, like major household appliances) that has a massive house with central heating and air-conditioning, throw in the gas-guzzling SUV (several of them, as a matter of fact - those "soccer moms" just can't get stuff done unless they gas-guzzle their one-or-two kids to all their "activities"), and all the products resplendant in their massive, energy-using homes, with three bathroom (two of them having jacuzzis) to make them "comfortable." Then take a struggling family with three-or-more children who live in a two-bedroom ramshackled hovel with a cracked bath-tub, limited heating and no air-conditioning. Maybe they've got a rusted hulk to drive; maybe they use public transport. Who uses more of the world's resources? It's the "educated" wealthy class with all its stuff that does. It's time to do something about them. Seizing their property and assets and putting them in a two (or even one) bedroom hovel and taking away their SUV's and all the electronic toys they give to their spoiled "planned" brats would be a start.
Sheila Beers. I agree enough is enough, but how are going to get this across and to whom. We need the Corporations to bring the jobs back to the United States. How do we do this. With import taxes so high that the people of the United States will stop buying outsourced merchandise. We should already be doing this. All will have to do this not just some. We need the people we elect to force the issue, but instead they have done nothing since 2010.
But you are correct, Sheila Beers, enough is enough.
People living past the age of 60 are what's sucking up all the resources on this planet. People outlive what they put into SS and their pensions and retirement funds by decades. Advanced age has medical needs that will never be paid off. The birthrate on average is down and dropping, but fewer are dying. (BTW, I'm 55.)
Sane(?) central, you are an idiot!! You hate God so much everything you say is lunacy. Why don't you think before you type?
Isn’t this a great irony, one hand you have people who worry that we are becoming overpopulated … yet when something is done about this we run into humans right issues. Far too often people naively assume any situation has an easy, one-sided right or wrong answer to it.
So which do you find preferable forced abortions and sterilizations or overpopulation that results in consumption of natural resources and makes for more (potentially) devastating disasters?
….Though for the record, as others have mentioned, regardless of what side you’re on when it comes to the issue, China has screwed itself with a huge gender gap of mostly males. A large proportion of testosterone filled males that have less access to females and thus leading to heightened competition resulting in aggression, rape and slavery. Unless you’re trying to purposely breed savages for war (that compete for females via power), a gender gap of women would make more sense.
tiredofthelunacy 3.25
How can I hate something that doesn't exist?
And I don't hate religious fanatics. I feel sorry for them. Weak minds that need a crutch. Can't deal with reality so they fill their minds with mythology. So sad.
And no, I won't stoop so low as to insult you back.
Oh my god - having men have vasectomies - what a brilliant idea - yet look at our Congress it's all the woman's fault
A woman Senator in Michigan has been silenced because she dared use the word "VAGINA" which is in all of the books on biology
Sorry guys you do have a penis and woman have vaginas and that's how it is
What a sad state of affairs when biological terms cannot be mentioned
I thought the "Puritans" where a thing of the past and yet men cringe about biological words
Maybe "Little John" makes you feel better - but it's still a penis
And as far as China is concerned maybe "BIRTH CONTROL" should be taught
Interesting when there will be more men than women what will they do?
Per China's societical traditions, a man having a vasectomy would be unthinkable. Every family NEEDS to have a son to carry on the family name and care for the parents when they get older--there's no 'Social Security' when the parents are too old or infirm to work. If a man marries a woman and she gets pregnant, statistics show that a slight majority of male heads-of-households in China are wiling to take potluck and if its a girl, they shrug, accept, and say "we'll try again for a boy." There are some who will order the woman to abort a girl so they can have a firstborn boy.
If they have a girl the first time and the second pregnancy is also a girl, the overwhelming majority of those second born girls are aborted because they are fined/taxed heavily for a girl and lightly fined or not fined at all for a boy. China's one-child policy is actually not one child unless it's a boy, and a male CANNOT have a vasectomy--if they have a boy and he dies in infancy or childhood the male MUST still be able to impregnate his wife to have another boy. However, a woman who keeps conceiving girl after girl means there must be something wrong with her and a male head of household can order her sterilized or even divorce/repudiate/cast off his wife in favor of another wife who may do better at having boys. A widow who has two boys is highly-prized and sought as an acceptable mate because she has demonstrated their ability to have boys.
For the younger generation, with money enough to study Western Medicine and more inclined to question the older regime's policies, they understand that the baby's gender has nothing to do with the female, but with the male's sperm, and as they get older the protests increase against the one child policy applied unequally to girls. There will come a 'changing of the guard' eventually when the old policies will end and a newer, more intelligent program will be enacted and introduced, but the damage is done and China's society is going to experience huge upheaval in the next 50 years or so.
The Chinese people understand birth control. Their population has been falling since the policy was enacted. However, the male-superior, boys-are-preferred tradition means that the government decides you can't have a second child if it is a girl. The issue here is not the policy, or birth control, it's the fact that the government decides they don't want you to have a girl.
There already are. There are 30 million more males in China than females. So their solution? Parents who can afford it are buying infant baby girls trafficked from other Asian countries and raised in 'domestic labor' (i.e. slavery) situations their only future to become a breeder for the family's scion. (read: sexual slavery) There has been a steady increase over the last decade or so of human trafficking and slavery in China.
Planned Parenthood would love this policy.
..and righfully so - go to any trailor park & see if the one child policy would not be a perfect solution.
@ Chrissy
Lets start in Chicago!!! I think that would be an even more perfect solution.
So you see injustice in another country and the first thing you do is attack Americans. So being a veteran did you only fight for the freedoms of those you agree with?
By the way, you're against abortion and birth control and yet you scream bloody murder when you have to pay taxes that might go to feed one of these unwanted children who could have been prevented by birth control or abortion.
Not just attacking Americans. Attacking the rights of American women is more accurate.
Planned Parenthood thinks it should be a woman's decision.....and only hers.
Really Proud?? I highly doubt it.
Go to any upper-class/crust neighborhood with palatial homes and look at the spoiled, selfish brats that were "planned" and I would say that for them a no-child policy would be a perfect solution.
What is the problem with birth control. Planned Parenthood does not perform abortions.
Yes they do.
Planned Parenthood does perform abortions. It's about 5% of the programs and services they provide to women.
Though of course nearly all PP does is affordable women's health care, cancer screening and prevention, contraception and sex education.
3% and thank goodness they do.
I agree with the vasectomy idea...however, as long as a bunch of men are making the decisions about what rights I have and don't have with regards to reproducing and MANY OTHER THINGS...that will NEVER HAPPEN...the penis is so sacred...NOT.
I agree. People are stupid to have more children than they, themselves can support. Why do women in this country continue to dig themselves into holes having several children (often by multiple fathers)? When I was younger I was legitimately on gov. assistance briefly. I got myself out of that quickly. They don't really give that much, not enough to want to have more kids for more money. I also think this is also a contributing factor to the rise in crime. These kids usually do not have ties to their fathers so they really don't have parent(s) to hold them accountable for getting into trouble. On top of it all, the food supply in this world is getting dangerously low. Birth control, people.
Planned Parenthood, yes, do abortions at the expense of the woman getting the abortion. And, do not think your conservatives would ever tell the truth about it. But, if those of you who do not believe. Go to a Planned Parenthood, pretend you want an abortion and see what you are told about the expenses. The truth shall set you free and make you more intelligent.
yes they do - check you facts again.
Marlo - No - Planned Parenthood is not about abortions - only 1% and that is not covered by Federal Money and is only performed under dire circumstances - like the mother's life is in danger
So before you post get your facts straight - and Marlo - man or woman - breast cancer both in men and women screening - pap smears - prenatal care and Viagra is also dispensed
Whoopee guys you get your useless serves no purpose dose of manhood back
Steve - 1% of abortions are performed under Planned Parenthood - don't you love it when one of our stupid Senators - of course Republican said 90% - and then he said "HE MISPOKE"
The new lie - "I MISPOKE" how about "I LIED"
And everyone will believe the MISPOKE and not the LIE
Seriously? If you are in the US, count how many people you see today who are not at least overweight.
no just let them all come over here. Or better yet off with her head. come on now let these people live their sick lives, we can't rescue everybody.
Of mice and men....China is an educated and civilized nation who understands the effects of over populating. Others who continue this parctice in third world nations are crying outevery year for UNICEF and the RED CROSS to feed their starving children. China is too proud for that. Mice eat their own babies when they can't feed them, do we have to let it get to that before we put an end to over population ?
While I think this is barbaric, China does need population control. They just don't have the resources to feed so many people. It is too bad that corruption is creating a human tragedy. This didn't have to come down to killing a perfectly viable fetus.
The Chinese government is one giant abortion.........
I already looked into what problems a baby would have being born at 32 weeks (approx 7 months) because my sister is in the hospital having contractions right now (luckily about to be released as they're not progressing). My niece has a good chance of just needing some time in the NICU, with no long-term problems, if she were born today.
If the baby in the story is at the same level of development, why could they not at least just force her to give up the baby for adoption. They could still get their bribe money that way, and a child that could have survived being born right then would get a chance to live.
Many of you have missed a major point here: they DID NOT have the money to pay the fine (bribe). If they'd had the money, they would have been able tp keep the baby. The hoodlums even tried to get the woman's father and sister to pay the "fine", but they didn't have it either.
hey proudamericanveteran I think you need to do some research on what planned parenthood does because this article has nothing to do with that organization.
Planned Parenthood does not do abortions? Where have you been. Why do you think the Feds intervened when the States tried to drop funding for the American Eugenics Program? Maybe you should do some research on what is now called Planned Parenthood. Originally it was very supportive of Hitler's Eugenics Program.
My statement was in regards to Planned Parenthood supporting forced abortions and one-child policy.
Where have you been? Abortions are in the minuscule minority of what PP does.
And FYI, the fact that you're a "proud vet" shows me you don't care about killing after birth, but you get your panties in a twist over a woman having a legal abortion. I find that hilariously ironic.
And FYI, the fact that you're a "proud vet" shows me you don't care about killing after birth,
Sure, going into battle to stop some one like Hitler, Southern slavery, the Taliban (want to talk about their women's rights programs?) Al Qaeda, tyranny in Libya or countless other events in which the oppressed were reprieved by those willing to stand up against dictators and demagogues is morally wrong. However sticking a pair of scissors into an infants skull or poisons into their body is okie doke? Tall about ironic. You care not about the innocent lives of the unborn but you think it is wrong to execute a murderer? Does your own hypocrisy ever rise up to choke you?
Of course if we did restore the American Eugenics Society they would probably eradicate the entire Democratic Party. Maybe you have a point after all Ruken. Heck if abortions would have been legal sooner we wouldn't have to deal with Obama.
Wow Ruken...that was a low blow. To call a vet out as a murderer when he was serving our country? FYI....not all vets see combat and/or are forced to kill. I would hope somebody could put together an argument without comments like that.
So Planned Parenthood now forces abortions upon youths? Is that what they do? They roll out in vans and offer abortions to people who don't want them? Tell us exactly what you're accusing planned parenthood of, Vet. We're all on pins and needles to hear further what you're accusing PP of.
@Ruken - You just insulted every veteran in the United States. Saying every person that served in our Armed Forces does not care about human life not only shows your ignorance but it also confirms your lack of respect for those who served and provided you with the freedom to speak so callously.
RUKEN was trying to make a point to him. He gets on here a lot and hates anything liberal, the President, His commander in chief. Never made sense to me to kill someone for killing someone else. Why do we kill people, who kill people, to show that killing people is wrong? I support our troops, however, a lot of civillians, innocent civillians as well as innocent troops are killed in war, the latest of which was a total lie. Not their fault as they were following orders, but I see RUKEN's point.
ProudVeterean, look at Kodak, Volkswagen, and Bayer.. they were all originally supportive of Nazi Germany in one way or another, also. So I assume you don't buy anything from them or the 100+ other companies (including Coca-Cola) because they must all still be evil?
@Diverdown, while I don't agree with anything proudveteran said, I still find it disgusting that ruken could not put together an adult argument without insulting a whole group of people that did what I would not. I may/may not agree with war etc, but I would never dismiss the fact that we are where we are today because of people that protected my freedom by serving when I would not. I most certainly would not call them out as murderers for it.
IdahoSteve. I find it disgusting that you can put down Ruken. If a Vet that is not drafted is against abortion then why would he volunteer to kill. And do not say to protect this country, because this country was not threatened by Iraq. And Afghanistan was not the enemy on 9/11. The men involved where Saudis. No the wars were for the promotion of Cheney and Companies. Not to make anyone free. And besides how many children did our military abort. But, yeah, Proud is against abortions but not if it involves wearing an uniform.
And I still support our troops just not the stupid ideas of Vet. And no Ruken did not insult every vet.
While I do find highly offensive that Ruken would make that argument, I'm also troubled by Proud's suggestion that half the country should be eradicated for the sin of having different beliefs than he. I can only hope that his comment was just an angry response to an insult, leading to hyperbole, but these days, who can tell? "Liberal" and "conservative" are filthier words than "commie" and "socialist" were back in the day, and I can tell you it's NOT Obama creating this divide. Everyone here needs to calm the hell down and discuss things without attacking each others' patriotism and humanity.
Good policy, how they go about enforcing it is screwed up. What I would do is give financial incentives to NOT have more then 1 baby and then place heavy economic penalties on those that do.
In this country its just the opposite. The more kids you have, the more free government hand outs you can get. My sister's obese neighbor kid's were getting old and the state was going to cut her off of certain benefits. She was looking for someone to impregnate her so she could get some more welfare (Food stamps/housing assistance/free day care/etc)//....
Large families are usually a response to poor public health (hedging against kids dieing early) and unreliable safety net (kids will support you in old age). Its basically a no-confidence vote for their govt.
Also lack of sex education and knowledge about contraception. There is also an issue within some social settings, where a young girl is taught she's not a "grown woman" until she's pregnant.
“How can I agree to do that, as a mother?” Hey, sadly, "mothers" here in the USA do it voluntarily all the time.
daryl.... socorny1 was talking about going through the abortion itself... nothing to do with the time... comprehend much?
Wasn't there a DR in Kansas that specialized in "late-term" abortions? There's a reason they were called "partial birth" abortions....
Oh lordy, more men talking about a subject they know NOTHING about.....
jwislon, why don't you go fact finding about this "DR in Kansas" and post what you find here. Here's your chance to actually find out if the heresay you promote as having some foundation in truth is, in fact, true.
Amen, Kathryn Sullivan...talking about it and making decisions too...snip your balls men...that would take care of the issue.
I thought the religious fanatics had killed that Dr.?
Or are they still in the "stalk and torment" stage on that particular target?
Maybe just blew up his office once or twice?
Murder does not make murder right but Dr. Tiller was in fact known for being a late term abortionist. One case for which he stood trial involved Christin Gilbert, a 19-year-old woman with Down Syndrome from Keller, Texas, died in January 2005 after a multi-day abortion procedure performed at Tiller's facility. Reports conflict as to whether the abortion was performed by Tiller or by LeRoy Carhart. Gilbert had been 28 weeks pregnant. The autopsy stated that Gilbert died of sepsis following the abortion. That was only one of several late term abortions that he performed and was investigated for because of laws that stated if there was viability outside the womb, the doctor must not perform the partial birth abortion. Google or Wiki him for more info about his practice as an abortionist. Daryl, it happens every day. Abortions after 28 weeks are very common. So are early births where the baby survives and thrives. That is why it is called partial birth abortion. Oh, and by the way, I am a woman AND I am informed...
ALthough the methods to enforce this policy are horrendous, the policy itself is sound. I would rather see NO children running around then have pictures of malnourished and disease-ridden children such as is the case in Africa.
Amen Chrissy I think we should start dropping orphans off at the houses of people that don't support women's rights and say you have to take care of these children. I think opinions would change quickly
This poor woman was to term meaning the child could have survived outside the womb, but abortions LEGAL United States Abortions are not in the last trimester, they are during the first 19 to 20 weeks I believe and then not viable after that. People today that chose to voluntarily abort for whatever reason do not have to birth a dead baby HUGE difference people or are you so stuck on your lurals that you chose to not observe this FACT. They commited murder she wanted the child she had carried it for months and was ready to have it big difference then what we can legally do here in America 3rd and 4th term abortions are only granted by individual states(some states still outlaw it regardless) and can only be done if they meet a very strick law guideline (rape, incest, or medically necessary). This entire situation is so totally different then the US it isn't even compairable.
Dear Ashley:
I found it very diffucult to read your oh-so-run-on sentence with 4 commas and 3 periods.
Sorry wise-one I am the daughter of a PhD Doctor.
Roe V Wade
Untill 12 weeks the government has no compelling interest
Unitll 24 weeks government has some interest but needs compelling reason
After 24 weeks......life or health of the mother only.
Now quite arguing about abortion.
Ashley,
a"PhD Doctor" is not a medical doctor. Your parent could have a Phd in English Lit. A medical doctor has an MD.
somebefuddledperson: Sorry you have a hard time reading. I read and understood her post. Just because you can only read short sentences should you complain about someone else posting.
Kathyrn. I love your posts. Men should totally stay out of the abortion issue. Unless, of course, we could create a vagina for them insert sperm, meet the egg, and have them deliver. More than once. Then maybe they would change a little. The funny thing is that the ones complaining about abortions are probably not paying child support. And if men would masturbate more there would be less babies, or even if they would use protection. The sex act should be both parties responsibilities not just the woman's.
@slightlyold
That was a little harsh towards somebefuddledperson. I also had trouble reading the post. I guess I should just forget about the years of education I was given.
Shame on you for enabling and encouraging the complete abandonment of a correct grammatical approach to communication. I shall rely on you to translate from here on out.
P.S. It was wiseone that was having trouble reading.
have to be at least 12 weeks
The one child policy is the most forward-looking policy on earth regarding the common good. Its enforcement, if this story is indeed anywhere near true, needs one heckofalot of improvement. The fact is that the earth will support only a certain number of human beings. A higher number means a lower quality of life whereas a lower number increases the ability to obtain a higher quality of life. You can ignore reality all you want but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality. Superstitious sentimentality, self-righteousness and imaginary friends, even that master puppeteer in the sky, won't help matters.
A lot of Chinese mothers hide until the baby is born then find a public place to put the baby so it will be found and taken to an orphanage. The orphanges are full of baby girls. My daughter adopted from there. Much easier, less expensive and the babies are usually healthy (no crack babies). Even the older children are not as mixed up emotionally as U.S. babies. Why I don't know except the nannies in China seem to love on the children a lot. Maybe that affection helps. It's a shame she didn't register and it is horrible to be forced to abort a baby.
China is such a beautiful country.
People just need to get past this.
Africa is beautiful too, if you can ignore the vast amounts of genocide and famine.
Even Arizona is nice, if you only look at the Grand Canyon.
We have more beauty here in AZ than just the Grand Canyon.
Our problem is we are infested with republicans from out of state who retire here.
I don't see anything beautiful about China. They murder unborn children against the mother's wishes. They murder babies with tainted milk. They ship defective product after defective product - many of which contain lead or other things that are deadly to children - American children. The chinese are perceived as very industrious, but if you take stock, they a industrious at producing inferior products.
All the while taking over the economy of the U.S. Where's the beauty? Would it be smog locked cities?
get past what?? Babies who are 7 months along being murdered???? Murder happening in a beautiful setting doesn't make it any less horrible. "get past it" is easy for you to say, you're here, no one burned you alive in the womb . . . . right?
This sounds like something we should think about when these welfare mothers have more than one child. Okay with me.....
Personally I think after a woman has one child, if she is on welfare, she should recieve some form of birth control. If she has two and on welfare, her tubes should be tied. And since DNA is so good now, if a man has two children and the mother(s) are on welfare, he should have a vasectomy. Anyone who can't support their own children, doesn't need them.
Dick and bevvar. Who would fight in the wars if welfare moms only had one child. This is why the Republicans are against abortions. No babies born, no war, no war money for their pockets. Because Abortion is not against God as it is not in the Bible. And thy shalt not kill does not hold water, as everyone knows that God gave Moses the tablets for living to use for the living. The Catholic Church started the whole abortion thing. They needed boy babies for all the wars that they insisted had to be fought in the name of God.
We should have smiliar laws here in United States regarding a one child policy. There's just a ridiculous amount of ignorance when it comes to over population. These people don't know that we are getting more and more miserable because there is simply not enough resources now to cope. If anything, refrain people from even having babies. The World would be less of a strain if this were true. Trust me
I agree, there should be a about a 20 year, worldwide moratorium on having babies.
The problem is we would vote and the Rich would get to keep having children the Poor would be sterilized and we Mid-class pay for it all in the end, doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
I am sure a few Catholics would have a word or two to say about a child limit.
China's population is staggering. Most of us mere mortals can not even contemplate the true meaning of 1 billion.
Here is another way to look at it.
Assume,at 20 years old, you were lucky enough to win a billion dollar lottery. Also assume you live to 85 and the average annual income in the states is $40,000.
40,000 x 365 = 14,600,000 x 65 (years) = 949,000,000
You could spend the national individual income average every day for the next 65 years and not get to 1 billion.
What pictures? Where are these "gruesome" photos? If they are going to censor the pictures perhaps they should not even post the article.
Google the title of this article and then click images...you can't miss it...makes you think a little deeper about the issue...
This is tragic on so many levels. But the underlying problem is that this woman had a baby girl, supposedly worthless in China, unless you are one of the millions of young men trying to get a date with a young lady.
The male to female ratio has gotten so out of hand in china due to this one child policy that girls are growing up spoiled and entitled and young men are joining gangs and up to no good becuase they can't have a normal relationship, settle down and have kids like their parents becaues of the archaic nature of gender discrimination that has manifested itself into a national crisis.
You can only mess with mother nature for so long. If everyone has to have a boy, the country goes haywire over decades of this nonsense and china is seeing the problem if gender imbalance right now. Crazy that they perpetuate it.
You're certainly right about the sex ratio disparity. Boys are preferred and girls might be aborted in order to try again. Same in India. But they are being so short-sighted. Who will marry these boys? And it's usually the wife of the elder son who cares for the son's elderly parents, too. Very short-sighted.
Because of the high ratio of male/female in china, we're going to hear about more and more kidnappings of women from foreign countries or outlying areas, like Mongolia, in order for some man in Beijing to have a wife.
Denise - Baby girls are NOT considered worthless in China but rather a financial burden because of a cultural custom. When a girl marries she leaves her family to live with her husband's family, thus providing his family with financial support in their "old age" and depriving her family of the same.
Ews824, if a person is killed before birth, my thought is someone doesn't think they are worth much. Or that they are more trouble than they are worth. That's been the opinion of the chinese since 1979 when they adopted the policy.
THe policy is bad for boys and girls. WIth a 24 million more young men than women in china (there are 300 Million total people in the US for context) the girls don't have it that easy either. Rape and sexual assault are on the rise. While some may prolong singlehood in search of mr perfect, others may get sold into prostitution rings. Unemployment and stagnant wages are the norm for young men as too many of them compete for the same jobs. These young men thought to be "princes" at birth are now facing the harsh reality that they have a very hard time finding their "princess" because someone killed her before or shortly after she was born. A 24 million surplus of young men is a big problem. I think its tragic that the chinese continue to perpetuate this crisis.
Why did we ever start to do business with these people? Nixon should have stayed home.
i am asian and keep telling my naive asian counter parts, Again , thank god for america!! my dad been tellin g for years , thank the heavens you are in the USA !!!
They'll be sorry they killed that girl when boys get old enough to marry and there aren't enough females to go around.
I accept abortion, but not after the foetus is old enough to live on its own. This is just my feeling; I'm not getting into an argument w/ anti-abortionists.
Is this a article to help the Chinese gain better human rights or is it just a hateful article to expose China because of American problems and jealousy over China?
I get the sense that America does more complaining about China's human rights than the Chinese civilians themselves. When you go to China, I dont think many Chinese are spending their lives thinking about how messed up the government is and is actually quite happy that their able to live better lives now compared to before when they were more poor.
Because there are protest going on all over the world. Both Yemen and Israel has protest and human right issues as well, how come that is never covered? O wait Yemen has a US military base and Israel is well....Israel. I love the hypocrisy. Negative Chinese articles are just fueled by the American agenda to contain China and expose them because it serves America's best interest to do so and not really because we care about the Chinese to live better lives in China.
For this fact even though China has their human right issues, i do not support America's negative media towards them because its just an evolved form of western imperialism. How many of you really care about the Chinese and exposing the government because you want to save them? I bet you just need these articles to make yourselves feel better about your country and to just hate on a rising superpower. Thats all it is....
You are sadly mistaken.
Please do not try and convince us that the silence means happiness. I can only imagine how TERRIFIED I would be to open MY mouth in that country.
In case you didn't read it all the way through, this was exposed by a Chinese woman.
Jealousy. Of course. We are jealous of China. You got us all figured out Gar. I don't cherish my freedom at all.
Hmmm, let's just discuss Yemen for a sec...did we not read YESTERDAY they have been using children as human shields?
I'm glad to come here and read some well thought out answers like yours Gar-395637. As someone who grew up in China, resided in the US, Canada as well as Germany, I completely agree with your point of view. In the field of American studies, one of the basic principles one learns about is American Imperialism and how it operates differently today than in the past.
In recent years, the amount of "coverage" about China has increased dramatically-with mostly stories about negative social events. If other countries around the world featured this amount of negative coverage in terms of crimes committed in the US, the world would see the United States in different light. And by crimes, I mean, crimes committed with bystander effect in the US in comparison to the story MSNBC ran about the Chineses girl getting run over by the car and nobody helping her. There are also crimes committed against women and children on a DAILY BASIS on the US, but we don't hear about them.
I'm not saying that the Chinese government is perfect or even great. Certainly, they need to work around better enforcement, less corruption but this is all very difficult when one is required to govern such a large population. But the one child policy is something I firmly believe in. I fear for the wellbeing of not just ONE CHILD, but of EVERY CHILD on this planet that has already been born.
As others mentioned, we are overpopulated and overtaxing our planet. Without the industrial revolution, we would never have been able to feed this many amount of people. We depend on fossil fuel everyday in the production of food. We are no-where near true renewable energy. Pollution and climate change is visible and very damaging. The quality of air and water differs greatly between cities like New York and Vancouver, for example. The quality of food also greatly differs by location, compare norther/central Europe and the North America and you can find a great discrepancy in the quality of fresh produce. Most of Europe's supply for produce comes from greenhouses in the Netherlands or Spain. Try a tomato there, it doesn't even taste like tomato. In China, you can search hard, but you will have a very difficult time trying to find anything "organic" there that isn't imported. Most of the food in China (and Asia in general) are very processed, but they need to do this as they have so many more people to feed. In this sense, North America, is indeed a heaven compared to most of Asia. North America have something the rest of the world doesn't and they should not forsake this-nature. Nature itself will become the greatest commodity, but due to economic pressures, the government (of both US and Canada) is decreasing its budget to fund programs that protect our wildlife, marine ecosystem and forests.
Sure there are technologies we can create in attempt to mitigate the problem. However, it may not develop quick enough to avoid a major world catastrophe. The supply of fresh water and natural resources will only decrease in the future and that will lead to conflicts. How we deal with these conflicts will be extremely important.
Already, we can feel the impact of the changes to our planet-from global dramatic weather fluctuations to the increase in the flowering season (major impact on those with allergies). Even if we are at ZERO CO2 emission level from this year and forward, there will still be major changes to our forests. We would have to either replant or "relocate" entire forests in order to maintain them. Seaside residences will be impacted by the rising sea level and people who live by the waters will have to act now in order to protect their homes.
But this can only get worse and conflicts are likely to occur in the lifespan of our children or grandchildren. So imagine if the world's population CONTINUES to grow at such a rate, it is an incredibly scary future ahead for mankind. We're not cockroaches and we will not be able to adjust accordingly to massive famine, nuclear fallout or dramatic climate change. We do not have the capacity to light-speed away and find another planet. (It is incredibly disparaging to think about the space programs.) So no, I do not believe that currently "technology" is the sole solution to our global problems. (Unless you mean the increase in the development of computing technology/bionic life and them being our children who would be the remnants of mankind.) I believe in encouraging population control.
We will see very soon the difference in quality of life between China and India. Both are developing countries but only China has population control policies. India is already overcrowd and their resources overtaxed. One can say many negative (and true) things about the Chinese government or their policies, but the One-Child Policy is indeed the MOST PROGRESSIVE and SUSTAINABLE POLICY in place in the world. Indeed they need to re-structure the way they govern these policies. They need to eliminate the ability for people to PAY for the way out of this system as that aspect of it is inherently flawed-it only contribute to the increasing sharp difference between the poor and the wealthy. Wealthy people in China, believe they can do get away with anything-including murder, losing any sense of morality. Run over someone with their flashy car? They only care about their car, and would throw cash in the victim's faces, treating them like animals. It is also difficult to weed out the corrupt government officials-corruption, especially on a smaller level is difficult investigate.
The HUKOU system needs to be adjusted accordingly as well. It is discriminative and indeed those who are bounded by it are not "free." There's also the flawed Chinese education system and the inherent inequality that exist in the education system due to the Hokou. But with the population problem, It is difficult to foresee a way out of the system. Already the country's cities are swollen, extremely polluted and crowded. The one child policy has been positive in this aspect in helping to lessen the Hukou restrictiveness. And as slightly mentioned in the article, the one child policy has also become less restrictive.
The government acknowledge the problems associated with the policy- the rural culture of sex preferences, leading to the unnatural gender ratio. But one must realize that the problem with the gender ratio is not just the government's undoing. It is a complex and circulatory problem- people who hold on to such backwards and superstitious cultural beliefs are not educated nor modernized. Changing such old cultural practices require time and education. But flawed education system cannot educate them. The Hukou limits their mobility to seek better education, but the population problem limits the Hukou. The government is trying to play a catch up game with the rest of the world while attempting undo the damages caused by the cultural revolution. I do sympathize with the challenges the Chinese government face-I believe that change will come but at a slow pace. It can come at a faster pace if the government is more open and less fearful of it's citizens and outside influences.
From the empirical age to the modern times the history of China is that of constant invasion. Chinese policies reflect these fears. Controlling the population by means of internet restrictions, freedom of assembly and arresting those who oppose the government in fear of a massive revolution. These fears in a modern sense and especially from a western point of view are unwarranted. But for a country in which CULTURE has been SLOW to modernize with phenomenal industrial growth, this is indeed a HUGE discrepancy which causes multiple levels of problems within the society. These are the challenges and problem that China faces today and they must find ways to rectify them before it reaches a critical point.
There are always better ways than an authoritarian system. You know that--you are simply too insecure about your heritage and thus create elaborate defensive excuses for what is still actually a very harsh world in China. Without the atrocities and sheer stupidity committed by vaunted "Chairman Mao," China would be far ahead of where it is today. I have seen old guys like you all the time who choose to enjoy living in the USA while from afar romanticizing and praising China and justifying the brutality of its so-called leaders, most of whom at the provincial level are uneducated. Why not move to Changsha, renounce your US citizenship, and see if your long-winded opinions matter one iota to your new beloved leaders?
Wow, you are certainly quick with the vile personal attacks! So many false assumptions and so little substance... Never did I once mention that the situation in China is easy nor that the current social situation is great. In fact, I stated that the a lot of the current problems are result of the cultural revolution started by crazy Mao. I wished that never happened. I agree with you that China would be 30 years more ahead than now and the population problem would not be a problem in the first place. But since it is a problem now, it is something that needs to be deal with. I'm trying to present a more comprehensive view of the situation, but clearly you can't comprehend that.
Just think of the money this country would save in wasted welfare $$$ if we had enacted this years ago? Hospital emergency rooms wouldn't be flooded with drug-seeking individuals and we would be able to go shopping at the market during the 1st week of the month without having to wait in line!
How exactly do we jump from "it's ok to have such a policy" which makes sense in an overpopulated country, to physically forcing a very pregnant woman into a van and injecting something into her to force an abortion? Is this how they've been enforcing this law all these years? By terrifying and physically injuring pregnant women?
Their actions simply cannot be justified as "for the greater good". This is disgusting and barbaric. There has to be a better way. My heart aches for these mothers.
At the VERY LEAST you would think they wouldn't wait until these mothers are nearly to term. Add insult to injury much? How much more damaging, emotionally and psychologically, is it to do this to a woman who is seven months pregnant? Why not go even further, wait until they're born and just kill the baby right in front of the mother. Let's make these women suffer even more than they already must. That'll teach them alright.
It's not the one child policy that's the problem, it's the fact that the policy is gender-skewed toward getting rid of GIRLS. China understands it has a population problem, but the simple fact is that the overwhelming majority of girls are being aborted and it is rarely a boy. We here don't understand--we look at a baby and see a baby--the Chinese look at it and see either a 'wage earner' and someone who can support the parents in their old age, or a 'weath sink', a girl who will take part of her father's weath with her when she gets married to enrich some other guy's family.
If this woman had been pregnant with a boy this would never have happened--they already have one child, but it's a girl, and if she'd been pregnant with a boy they would have been allowed to keep it after a light fine because only the boy can support their parents in their old age. Two girls in a poor family is unacceptable--only the rich can afford two girls.
They've been enforcing the law with a brainwashing program--when the woman goes to have a sonogram at about four months and the doctor tells her she's having a boy it's 'congratulations' to the father. If a girl, it's a long talk about whether they have any other children, an explanation of the fines and penalites associated with having a second girl child, and a suggestion of an abortion. Most women go along with the suggestion because they have been taught since birth that the male is superior, women are inferior and must be subservient, and so they agree.
If the woman becomes stubborn and insist on keeping the child, if the father doesn't force her to do it it gets done in late term just like this. And you're exactly right--the whole thing is calculated to impress on the woman that she's brought shame on her husband's home and family by 1) getting pregnant with a girl, 2)insisting on keeping it and 3)the government knews what is best for you and if you'd have only listened it wouldn't have been this traumatic.
Now, what everybody posting here doesn't understand is that once the media furor dies down and everyone looks the other way, this woman is probably going to vanish. House arrest or a Chinese prison as a dissident. And she'll be forcibly sterilized there too--she's had two girls, she's proven she's not capable of making anything but girls, so there's no reason for her to retain reproductive capability. (conveniently ignoring the fact that the baby's gender is determined by male sperm rather than female egg and it's therefore not her fault, but her husband's.) Even if she doesn't go to prison, she could still be sterilized and/or cast off, and her husband will be free to marry another woman and try to get a son by the new woman.
Amanda, thank you for your thoughtful reply. It is very sad that this is likely what will happen to this girl, and I imagine her sister as well, for bringing light to this subject.
We have known for so very long that it is the man's sperm and not the woman who decides gender. In fact, isn't that why Henry VIII had (and killed) so many wives? None could produce a boy for him. Yet he failed to see he was the common denominator in this equation. So fast forward a few hundred years or so, science has evolved and been able to PROVE this is the case, yet these poor women are still being blamed.
The devaluation of life is the most disturbing to me. So she will disappear, leaving another little GIRL punished because her mother's been taken away...an innocent child learning an early lesson about how little SHE is valued...and it's been forcibly impressed on this woman that she has no value in her world, and the husband would be free to find another wife, who he will impregnate with more GIRLS.
The United States should follow China's example on this one-- and not just with career welfare moms, but also Mo Mo's, Yuppies, and everyone else who loves to push out more than one kid. Population control is the answer to virtually all of the world's problems today. Hell, we should even pay people not to have any kids instead of rewarding them with benefits-- welfare or tax breaks-- for having them!
What an ignorant view of the world...
No job = no income tax refund
More than one child = $1,500 income tax owed per # of children greater than 1
Shandril - I agree with you. The US has something to learn from China's policies. At what point did it become acceptable in our society for a couple to breed like crazy (i.e. the Duggars) to the limit that society now has to support those kids.
At the very least, people should be required to obtain a permit to breed after they've proven they're educationally, financially, and personally ready to handle children. Much like driving, being a parent shouldn't be viewed as a "right" but more as a privledge.
I know it takes a "village to raise a child", but you know what? I don't want to live in that village, because I find children disgusting.
Same for marriage, then. You get whopping tax brakes for that. Those that pay the most taxes are single middle income people. So go after everyone else if that is your solution.
Population control needs to be taught, not mandated. CHOICE after education is the only thing that is going to help. China still has a society where the male children are expected to care for the parents. So boys are always going to be wanted.
To get over this we as a world have to get women empowered and educated. That will stave off this huge population explosion. That and having people realize that having children is not the sole reason for living. BUt I digress.
It could be argued that choosing to not contribute genetically to future populations should not be a right but a privilege. Such privileges should be granted only to people who can prove they are financially and intellectually capable of lasting societal contributions. When these privileged citizens fail to meet those obligations they should be fined.
Buffy, how many children do you have?
You ask?
Poplulation control doesn't equal one kid but two. One kid decreases population. That is what China was trying to do. Two replaces population. Did you pass math?
And to those of you saying "when" these kids get old enough? Did you read the article or any other for the last 3 decades? This has been going on for 30 years. They are more than old enough now.
Too bad your parents didn't decide to stop before you. I am comforted that you will not be passing your ignorance along to another generation.
forced abortion, coming soon to a country near you. if we don't control our population this problem will spread globally, Constitution be dammed we won't have a choice and it will become required for our species survival since we don't seem to show any self control or forethought. PS it may take a village to raise a child but right now the village is full of idiots, do you want the child becoming a clone of that which is ruining the world, or would you rather wait till it's safe and have the child grow up without the evil that's so common right now so they actually know to do the right thing and understand when somethings wrong and have a strong sense of respect, honor, loyalty and dignity? i know which side of that fence I'm on and will never have kids due to the fact that they will suffer in this world until the worst problems are fixed and fix them we must.
Mechanical, why are you giving the Duggers grief, they may have had many children but at no time were they ever a burden on society, they even home schooled the kids. From the few episodes of their show I've seen, the kids seem relatively normal, are growing up and still not a burden on society but are productive members. If there were more people like this society would be in a better place.
The Octomom, on the other hand, was single with six kids going into the fertility clinic to get the eggs planted. Someone there should have said no.
Shandril and Mechanical--Sadly, you may never know the joys and exhilaration of raising children. But on the other hand I am happy for the children you will never have since there are enough people out there with children they don't want.
btldriver, the Duggers are paid reality show stars (and why they are only God knows) and I'm sure they are well paid for their participation. I've seen pictures of them with expensive musical instruments, taking trips,etc and no one will ever convince me that daddy "Jim bob" is paying for all that. 19 kids? All of that would cost a fortune. I"ll be he negotiates a pay raise with the network before he has sex with his wife in case she gets pregnant again. She lost the 20th baby; I'll bet it fell out
I'll tell you why we should diss the Duggers. Yes they have the money to spend, to buy, but they are depleting the world food supply also. Just because you are rich does not mean you can deplete what we all need. Food. Shame on anyone thinking the Duggers are good Christian people. They are not. People like them are a drain on society, the United States and the world. Don't need them.
the illegals are depleteing the food pantry in my city. after they visit there they go to the local supermarket to use their gubberment taxpayer paid for food stamps for more free goodies. people who have multiple children by multiple daddies and expect the taxpayer to pay for them are a drain on society.i think your brain is slightly old.
Why is an article about Chinese One Child Law an invitation to talk about US politics? This isn't about the US. In fact, I have to say that no matter who gets elected in the US I highly doubt that US women would undergo forceable abortions at 7 months. And we should take comfort in that.
This article is about the archaic attitudes of the Chinese towards females. The baby killed was a girl. THe chinese have a terrrible problem with gender imbalance that is leading towards anarchy in their own country. Boys join gangs, girls get forced into prostitution. These are serious issues that result from tinkering with mother nature. There are 24 million surplus males of marrying age that can't find a girl. There are 300 million people in the US for context. This is not about the US, this is about China perpetuating a serious problem that they created 28 years ago.
That is the real issue.
I read this article and it makes me want to puke. Opting to have an abortion is one thing. Watching your child be murdered is just that MURDER. This woman wasnt 7 weeks pregnant she was 7 MONTHS pregnant. I am sick and tired of hearing how woman should use contraception to get social services. Is there something wrong with sterilizing a MAN instead of a woman. Oh they say just put the woman on birth control - it won't hurt her. Well I am living proof that birth control does hurt woman - just ask my oncologist what caused my breast cancer? HORMONE THERAPY FOR BIRTH CONTROL .I received surgery, radiation, chemo and no hormones for the rest of my life to treat any condition and I was one of the lucky ones... So to the people who say just put woman on birth control it wont hurt them - you are IDIOTS. And to the leadership of China - well when all your men have no women to **** then you will have no more babies to further your country . Then perhaps they will rethink their murderous actions towards women and their children. And I personally believe in any woman's right to have an early term abortion - if it is HER decision. I have never heard of a man carrying a baby or giving birth to one and it seems like half the time they dont care for their children in any number of ways - so why the helll do MEN have anything to do with a decision regarding a WOMAN's body? Maybe if China sterilized every male after they had one child they would be able to control their population and there ould never again be a baby to abort or to KILL like this poor womans child was. Why do men always get a pass when it comes to birth control but are at the forefront of trying to tell a woman what to do?