E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSS
PETER PARKS / AFP - Getty Images
A plainclothes policeman gestures to a photographer outside the house of jailed Chinese dissident Liu Xiaobo, the 2010 Nobel Peace Prize winner, in Beijing Wednesday.
By NBC News’ Adrienne Mong and Bo Gu
BEIJING – Liu Xia has been under house arrest since Oct. 8 – when her husband, Liu Xiaobo, won the Nobel Peace Prize. Her detention started after she was allowed to pay him a brief visit at the Jinzhou Jail in northeastern China.
On Oct. 24, Liu Xia issued an open letter thanking the Nobel Prize Committee and supporters of Charter 08, a manifesto her husband wrote calling for political reform and democratization in China that was signed by more than 350 Chinese intellectuals and human rights activists.
“Liu Xiaobo said this prize goes to all the dead spirits at Tiananmen Square, and I think the prize also goes to everyone, every fearless Chinese who protects their dignities,” wrote Liu Xia.
Under strict surveillance and with no possibility of traveling to Oslo, Norway, to collect the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday on behalf of her husband, she invited 144 people to attend the ceremony in their place. Among those invited were Liu’s friends and lawyers, those who signed Charter 08, renowned artists, intellectuals, and political dissidents.
The Chinese government’s response came swiftly. Liu Xia lost all means of communications with the outside world after her last tweet on Oct.18.
But she’s not the only one whose communication and freedom of movement has been curtailed. Dozens of Netizens have been harassed by the police for circulating news online or celebrating Liu’s prize. People considered to be influential activists have been placed under house arrest, including the writer Yu Jie, who openly criticized Premier Wen Jiabao; Ding Zilin, leader of the Tiananmen Mothers campaign; and Chen Guangcheng, a blind activist who was just recently released from prison.
And the list doesn’t end there. People even suspected of being potential Oslo attendees – whether or not they are on the list of the 144 people invited by Liu Xia – have been restricted from traveling outside of the country.
Friend or foe – you can’t go!
He Guanghu, a professor of religion at Renmin University, was one of the first to be stopped.
As he was traveling Nov. 19 to Singapore for a seminar, he was told by Chinese customs officials that his departure could “jeopardize state security” and a travel ban had been ordered by the Beijing Public Security Bureau. He was outraged and wrote on his personal blog that he reserves the right to sue the authorities. “If the people have no security, what’s the point of ‘state security?’”
It’s possible that officials suspected he could re-route his itinerary from Singapore to Norway, but it was impossible to understand why Mao Yushi, a revered 81-year-old economist, was not allowed to travel abroad.
Adrienne Mong / NBC News
Internationally renown artist Ai Weiwei Tweeted when he was prevented from boarding his international flight last week.
Mao is neither a friend of the Liu couple nor an invitee of Liu Xia’s. On Dec. 1, Mao was on his way to Singapore for a meeting on international development in the Himalayas. He, too, was stopped by customs officials and given the same excuse of “jeopardizing state security.”
“There’s only one goal for them to prevent people from leaving the country – to make the Nobel Peace Prize award look deserted,” Mao said during a phone interview with NBC News. “I have signed Charter 08. I’m sure that’s the reason I got stopped. This is the first time I’ve ever been banned from leaving China.”
Liu Xiaoyuan, a Beijing-based lawyer, also found out that he had been deemed a potentially dangerous enemy of the state when he tried to fly to Japan for an academic conference. Liu Xiaoyuan was not invited by Liu Xia and did not sign Charter 08, so he was confused why he wasn’t allowed to leave the country.
“They are just being paranoid and presume everyone leaving China is going to Oslo for the prize. This is just like the Cultural Revolution,” he said. When NBC News asked what the travel ban would do to China’s international reputation, Liu gave a frank answer, “They simply don’t care now.”
"They cannot stop people giving the prize to Liu Xiaobo, but they definitely think they can stop people attending the party," said Ai Weiwei, an internationally famous artist whose Sunflower Seeds exhibit is on view at the Tate Modern in London.
Ai and Mo Shaoping, a top lawyer who initially represented Liu Xiaobo, are two of the more prominent luminaries prevented from traveling overseas. Both men said they had been invited to attend the Oslo ceremony but had no plans to do so. Ai said he had even informed security officials in Beijing that he would not be present at the Nobel ceremony.
Regardless, last Friday, Ai was waiting to board a flight for Seoul, where he was to take part in a conference, when police officers told him his "travel may affect national security," he said.
The same thing happened to Mo when he tried to board a flight for London Nov. 9 to attend a lawyers’ conference. As with Ai, he said this was the first time he’s ever been blocked from traveling out of the country.
"What they've done to us has no factual or lawful support. We were going there for an academic seminar, which has nothing to do with national security," Mo said. "As a citizen, everyone has the right to leave the country ... We are going to sue them when the time is right."
HO / AFP - Getty Images
This file picture taken on March 14, 2005 shows 2010 Nobel peace laureate Liu Xiaobo in Guangzhou in southern China.
China throwing its own party
In addition to restricting the movement of activists, the government has waged its own PR campaign. A newly formed Chinese organization announced that it will award the “Confucius Peace Prize” so China can “promote its own view on peace and human rights to the world.” In a not-so-subtle dig, the award will be given out Thursday, a day before the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded in Oslo.
China has exerted diplomatic pressure on foreign embassies not to send representatives to the award ceremony. The Nobel committee said that out of the 65 invitations it sent out to embassies in Oslo – 19 countries have declined so far, including China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, Cuba, Pakistan, Iraq and Iran.
And Chinese citizens living in Norway have also being subjected to Beijing’s lobbying efforts. Geir Lundestad, of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, told the Hong Kong-based newspaper the Apple Daily, that he had received calls from Chinese living in Oslo who said that they were encouraged by the Chinese embassy to protest the award.
A throwback to a more repressive era
Beijing’s widespread and blunt reaction to the Nobel Prize raises concerns of a return to a more repressive era, raising the specter of the Tiananmen Square crackdown in June 1989.
“[The Nobel ceremony] is an event that has really catalyzed the Chinese government in terms of attempting to prevent participation and expression of its own citizens at some event overseas," said Phelim Kine, an Asia researcher for Human Rights Watch. “It's unprecedented in terms of recent history, particularly since Chinese citizens' rights to travel and ability to get passports to leave the country has been one of those rights and freedoms that the Chinese government has granted in recent years."
The Chinese government's heavy-handed response betrays some of its larger suspicions – more strident coverage in the state-run media and on blogs claims that the prize is part of a U.S.-led grand design to humiliate China.
"This award has been interpreted as an overseas smear on the Chinese government," Kine said. "It's responding as if under attack."
And yet Beijing's handling of the Nobel Peace Prize fits a pattern.
"We have been chronicling an ongoing tightening since 2008. There's less space for non-governmental organizations, civil society, and things have worsened significantly since the international financial crisis," said Kine.
That China emerged from the financial crisis with its economy relatively intact has fueled a sense of triumphalism, according to a diverse group of business groups, diplomats, and activists. "There's less of a sense that [Chinese officials] have to obey by the same old rules," said Kine.
“They’ve got money now, and money can make many things happen. But it’s not very appropriate that it is the taxpayers’ money they are using,” said Mao, the economist.
But if China wants to be a responsible stakeholder, as many of its own citizens desire, it must stop being such a bully, activists say.
"China as a big country should act as a big country," said Mo, the lawyer.
Leave a Comment:
And I plan to award the Charlie Sheen Sobriety Prize at the same time. ;)
If Chinese people aren't allowed to leave their country ... then their manufactured goods should not be allowed to leave, either. It befuddles the mind why companies continue to pour capital funding into China so that they can export more products and increase their income while persecuting their own people. Duh!
The reason companies continue to fund China is simple, it makes them more money. Capitalism puts money before civil rights, plain and simple. Civil rights must be fought for on all fronts, they simply will not be given away.
I agree 100%. Cuba - Embargo should translate to China - Embargo.
Tax the @#$^ out of chinese goods entering this country. Before it gets here. Screw them.
Liu Xiabo attended an armed protest! Do you really think thats peaceful he shouldn't have got the peace prize. I bet those Nobel idiots were all sniffing something when they picked him
Amen to that brother!!
Things you can do about this:
1. Invest only in ethical companies. Check them out before you buy their stocks.
2. Purchase goods only from ethical and moral companies, and tell those you are not dealing with.
It's is about time the consumers and common people to take control of our investments and money.
If we buy from ETHICAL companies...
If we stop buying "Made in China"....
We would put Wal-Mart out of business in a few months.
@ Person-2773978, Sparker-2551125
What armed protest did he attend? I don't know a lot about him so I am trying to do some research and gather the facts before coming to a conclusion. I haven't heard of him being involved in any violent activities, but if you have a good link showing some evidence that he was, I would like to see it.
armygruntjoe No Walmart will have to go back to made in the USA. The hard part is trying to stop the greedy unions that don't do anything for the employees and for the employees to have pride and lose there sense of entitlement.
I find it humorous that some of you seem to think that the US is in any kind of position to put and "embargo" on China. Keep in mind that the Chinese government can crash the dollar and subsequently the US economy at any time due to the massive amount of american cash and debt that they own. Ceasing trade with the US might actually be good for China, then they wouldn't be giving valuable goods away only getting soon to be worthless dollars in return. American bankruptcy is inevitable.
"No Walmart will have to go back to made in the USA. The hard part is trying to stop the greedy unions that don't do anything for the employees and for the employees to have pride and lose there sense of entitlement."
What entitlement? Like a wage that allows them to be able to feed their families?
"Ceasing trade with the US might actually be good for China, then they wouldn't be giving valuable goods away only getting soon to be worthless dollars in return. American bankruptcy is inevitable."
Especially if we keep lowering taxes AND spending like there's no tomorrow.
embargo's only hurt the oppressed people and do not create change for the better but rather the worst. for example, look at the poor citizens of Cuba. if you want to send a message to oppressive regimes you flood their country with western ideas and products. the citizens of china have had a taste of the western world (freedom and choice) and it's only a matter of time.
Does anyone doubt that the cookie - cutter talking - point dittoheads and 50centers such as Person or more sophistocated Code for nothing are not exactly the same ?
people, it is all about money and politics! We buy Chinese goods because they cheap, we all can shop at Neiman Marcus for American made goods, but most of us can't afford it, and that is a fact. People talk about Chinese Communist gov't, Communist is nothing but a label. every country have their own rules and laws. why can't US leave China alone. US is a free country? Civil right movement happened in 1950s, wake up people.
I would just LOVE to see the comments of these people when they can start buying "Made in USA" again! Seriously people, why is everything made in China? They can make it cheaper. Bring it back to the US and what happens? It gets more expensive! So, no more deals at Walmart, no more cheap electronics, kiss IKEA and any other affordable furniture goodbye. You would all have your minimum wage factory jobs back that pay just enough for you to survive on, but you wouldn't be able to enjoy anything more than food, clothing and shelter (if you could even afford that) on those wages because prices everywhere would skyrocket! I don't know though, maybe some of you have this dream that the higher-ups would cut their salaries and bonuses to help keep prices low and keep our way of life. I say dream because you and I both know that that will never happen. Any CEO in this country would gladly watch his company go down in flames as long as he can milk the severance out of it to continue his current lifestyle. But by all means, tax Chinese goods! Open American factories! Let's see where this goes....
Oh? And Americans are not harrassed when they leave the country? Why am I subjected to long detentions of up to 6 hours and purposely caused to miss almost every flight I take by the Department of "Homeland Security" then? I have yet to find out what it is exactly that I have done to deserve this treatment, but I sure do know that the US Government is doing all it can to prevent me from travelling!
China is giving its citizens rapid economic advancement, the US, on the other hand, is giving its citizens a collapsing economy, large unemployment figures and an escalating debt that will hold our children and grandchildren hostage for centuries and unbelieveably intrusive "pat downs"! You dont get so physically violated in China! Wake up!!!
Wake up yourself, first of all, people who live in China and speak out like you just did against their government face imprisonment or worse. Consider yourself lucky you live in a country as free as can possibly be while maintaining the freedom of others. Yes our government has flaws, but so does every single other government.
China may give its citizens rapid economic development, but many of those citizens are now suffering from poverty as the gap between rich and poor widens while many suffer from other conditions created by this.
Alex J, Communist is more than a label. It's the word that describes an oppressive regime that rules over the citizens of China with tyrannical evil. They think nothing of phony convictions, extreme and brutal torture, persecution and harassment, denying basic rights for any or no reason at all. Look what they did to the followers of Falun Gong - you can't even look that term up in China, you're in trouble for even speaking it. Religious persecution, controlling the press, persecuting dissidents - having them constantly watched and beaten up and their families and lives threatened. Corruption is rampant, the rich and well connected are above the law. The justice system is a sham.
These aren't lies, these are things that go on regularly. It's an awful, barbaric ruling party with no morals or ethics - they don't care about the well being of their people or the planet, mass pollution is rampant and sickening millions.
Yes, the civil rights movement happened in the 50s you say. America has had it's own struggles dealing with multiple races all trying to get along despite different cultures, fear, ignorance, unfounded hatred. I don't see how that has anything to do with USA being a free country or anything to do with China. The kind of crap happening in China these days couldn't happen in a more civilized, advanced country like America or Europe. The people have more power here. The public wouldn't stand for it. Say what you will about our politicians, their shortcomings and ill deeds have been well documented, but their humanity is existent, more than the communist party can say.
From my own personal experience with them, the Falun Gong are not exactly people you want to side with. I won't dispute that the Chinese government has been oppressive to them, to say the least. But believe me when I say the Falun Gong, at least at it's core, is a fanatical organization that does no more to promote human rights than the Communist Party of China.
In actual fact, there is no freedom of speech. If you sit in those detention areas and so much as open your mouth, you are told to shut up and face the wall. I have been to China and people there speak out against their government frequently and without fear. I was also in Spain when it was under Franco and Portugal at the same time. People there were terrified to say anything. But in China, almost every CHinese person I spoke to freely criticized their government and no police were running up and arresting them as you suppose.
Yes, China does not want riots. It would be counter-productive. And yes people are getting very rich, but millions and millions have been pulled OUT of poverty over the last 30 years. Chinese citizens are given more and more freedoms, we are getting less and less. The "Patriot Act" will expand and soon take away even more freedoms.
China talks about democracy now, the US government would love to get rid of it!
Did you ever think why a lot of american companies (or international companies) set up a lot of factories in China? Do you think they are all silly or they forgot that there were thousands of jobless workers in American which they could create jobs for these workers? The reason they travelled far away to China for setting up factories is to earn as much profits as they can from China. I don't know the average salary of American skilled workers, but I knew the average salary for Chinese skilled worker is about 250-500USD/month. If those American companies pay such salary to the American workers, can these american workers accept it? And Chinese government offered a lot of beneficial items to the international companies, such as no business tax for the first 3 years and help the enterprises to hire more skilled or well-educated workers etc, so these American companies or international companies love to build up and manufacture the stuffs to export to America. Do you ever think these capitalist are all doing the charity to China, NO!!!! I had been working in American and European companies for more than 13 years and I knew the real face of these companies. Some international companies, the project they were building up in China are high-polluted and low-technical items, and our Chinese People has to face the facts of high-pollution which these companies kept silent when they just entered into China. I was feeling so sad that a lot of high-polluted items are prohibited in their own countries. i had been working for two famous american companies in China, these companies has the same point that they did not invest the the big money in China because they want to avoid the business tax in China, when they get the projects in China, they hired huge amount of expat coming into China in the excuse of such talent could not be found in China. that is nonsense at all. For a normal engineer position in the company, the difference of salary is huge, the american engineer's salary is 5-9 times higher than Chinese engineer. So most of the money is not earned by China, is by America.
There is a saying in Chinese " Frog in the Well" , it means the Frog in Well only could see a piece of sky through the Well, instead of jumping out it seeing the whole thing.
We are loving the american or the other companies go back to their countries to serve for their own workers, but why they don't?.
Don't dream that all the Chinese people welcome Foreign companies although I had been working in foreign companies since I graduates from colleage.
Wake up! Some American-Frog. You can do the boycott! It's up to you, but let's wait to see what will happen, of couse, we have to find out or predict when it could happen?
China won't just crash the dollar. By doing so, they would devalue the dollar so much as to gravely hurt their own economy.
The debt owed is also a very good bargaining chip.
Apparently Thomas Friedman was unavailable for comment.
China wants to be (and is) a global economic power, even adopting many of our own economic models for its business success. Its glimmering, modern cities speak highly of the cash flowing into their country and I'm pleased that her citizens are able to prosper monetarily. But at what price? You cannot put a price on freedom of speach and movement. China, unless it changes its ludicrous policy on stifling the individual's right to speak and move as they feel, will ultimately fail. Smother your citizen's right to be utterly free and you will ultimately smother your own prosperity. The world admires your financial prosperity but your human rights agenda is lamentable. Enter the 21st century and free your people's minds. Your country will prosper far further once you wake up to the inalienable right of an individuals freedom to speak.
Wait another 10 years when Chinese made automobiles appear in the US market and beat out GE, Ford ,Toyota etc! The West has given all the knowhows to the Chinese and they will build and export cars at lower prices.
Chinese cars are garbage. They don't even meet basic safety or quality standards. The rest of the world has been making cars for far longer, the Chinese will need quite a bit of time to catch up in any meaningful way.
Wow, that is a lot of errors in one post!
GE is not a car company, GM is.
Toyota is Japanese, not part of the "West".
From what I have seen, China's main economic strong point is cheap light manufacturing (socks, toys, appliances, cheap electronics, etc.) not heavy industry (planes, trains, cars, boats, etc.). In fact, I have never even seen a single one of the above heavy industry products from China. I doubt China will be able to seriously challenge Japan in the auto industry for at least 15 years or more. In fact, China is a large importer of American and Japanese planes, cars, etc. One of my friends who is Chinese told me that "Jeep" is one of the first words they learn when they learn English!
China makes and imports Japanese and American vehicles actually...and they have many transliterations of the brand names.
God I love China.
Well, if you love China, know this...if we (the United States) crash, we take the Chinese economy with us. They have WAY to much invested in our dollar (and our debt), and our buying power.
This story has me cracking up over here! This is the kind of story that makes me REALLY THANKFUL I was born in the USA! Nice Manifesto BTW.
The Chinese government is a joke.
Not to the victims. All the suffering is no joke. Getting thrown into jail for thinking the wrong stuff is no joke.
@poiuy, I tell you, thinking the wrong stuff won't get you thrown into jail in China. But organizing others to do the wrong things, like mass protests against the government will surely get you thrown into jail, be it China or anywhere else, even the USA. Please make the right distinction between freedom and instigating a mass riot like Tiananmen.
American businesses are more concerned with the money they can make from Chinese manufactured goods & outsourcing than any ethical concerns arising from dealing with a repressive government. It's our fault; we don't do anything to prevent our leadership from catering to big business so why shouldn't they?
And so it continues..
And it's all of our faults ever time we buy Chinese made products. Keep on buying them and we won't have any jobs here at all. Vote with your dollars folks! Buy things from ANY country BUT China!!
To ALL the fools and hypocrite Americans who keep saying "Stop buying Chinese goods" and "Buy American made goods". Why the stupid ranting and complaining? You can all do the right thing. Put the money where your stupid mouths are. Why don't all of you, just maybe those who are foolish enough, or rich enough, will just band together and set up some factories and Americo-Mart to make and manufacture all the made-in-the USA goods and sell them to ALL those who have ever posted here and everywhere else about not buying made-in-China stuff? There should be enough customers based just on the number of people I've seen on this bulletin board alone. Wish you all the luck. You will need it.
Wow......very good point. Americo-mart. smart idea!
Kelly so is the US goverment a joke
Well China is the worst country on the earth when it comes to unethical behavior. They always blame the west or act like we just don't get it but I think people anywhere in the world can tell an oppressive bunch of terrible human beings when they see them. They can rant all the like about 'the west' but they're still a bunch of evil malign control freaks who have a longer history of war against their own people than just about anyplace else. I mean sure they came up with a lot of things before the rest of the world.. and their first emperor also burned most of it. Another first? LOL and they're still acting just like that. Only thing was he had mercury and lead poisoning. What's their excu.. Oh wait they probably do too since they poison the air, along with toys, food, etc... China is one vile government. Not really everyone who lives there persay.. but they really are top of the heap when it comes to scum :/ So I guess they have tht over the US. They think we're corrupt and evil? LOL Compared to them this country is mother theresa and Al Quida is a simple vagrant.
and how is what ur are saying right now proves you are better than them?
John: Did you actually read the story, or what Jimtwist had to say? Are you saying that what the Chinese are doing in this situation is okay? I've no idea what the point you are trying to make is...
Sparker: John doesn't understand English. It is too bad that Jim didn't write in Chinese.
wang ching ching chong wa ling po poo.....
nevermind, i just dopped some pots and pans on the floor.
Poiuy: even if he did write in chinese i wouldn't understand it anyways since i'm irish. all i'm saying (and kind of off topic) is that not all chinese pplz are bad u prob c one like everyday or so. wen i went shopping either i dropped something or got lost 3 out of 4 times chinese ppl helped me out while other pplz just give me the weird look. so i'm thankful taz all. *****
Apparently John doesn't speak English either "pplz", "prob", "c", "taz". You got lost 3 or 4 times when you were shopping, not only that but each time a Chinese person helped you!? All rightly then......
Saying that someone speaks Chinese is not an insult. Insulting people by attributing characteristics of another ethnicity is racist and hateful. Don't generalize about these things, especally since most people in the Chinese government who sympathize with the general populace too much are usually released from their duties in office. Because of the power the government has it is probably really hard for people petitioning for change to get a foothold in the political arena. Don't insult them, sympathize with their plight. This isn't about us being better than them.
This is the problem in this country, people tends to judge other based on their ethnicity. People think US is the wealthiest country, but we also owe the most. Because we have the Federal reserve, the money we owe don't seem that much. on the timesquare board is about 12T, but the real # is about 60T. The US basically a bankcrupt country, is sad that most of American don't know about it.
Hey Armygruntjoe, if you're going to use the name of an organization full of respectable men and women (many of which speak the beautiful language you just sodomized), please make respectable, intelligent comments. I would hate to think that you are a representation of the brave few that volunteer to defend our country.
He or she has no idea.
Yes China has come a long ways. Lets see, in the 50s over 40 million died from want of food. In the 60s over (as near as we can tell)40 million or so died because Moe felt like he was losing power. In the 70s China fought a war over some useless land and because they felt they were being picked on by Viet Nam. In the 80s they killed (no idea how many)some of their best and brightest because they were speaking about freedom. I wonder how many are in prison making goods to sell to the rest of the world as slaves. Yes Sir, they have come a long ways.
The pettiness of governments is not confined to China. One cannot forget that Jimmy Carter would not allow U.S. athletes to attend the Olympic Games. Carter became famous for his petty outbursts against everyone. Now, because he is paid, he purports to be a spokesman for Habitat for Humanity. China apparently thinks that they will lose face if one of their dissidents is recognized for his courage. For them the bad news is that the prize has been announced, the damage done. These actions against their people only worsen the damage. Confucius say" When you find yourself in a hole - stop digging." Where is the ancient wisdom for which China is famous?
This article is a poorly written propaganda piece - the author doesn't understand China or it's interests.
If these people were involved in similar activities in the USA they would be carefully watched and their freedoms would be impacted.
The Chinese are free to discuss and criticize the government, they are not free, however, to overthrow the government; neither are Americans. The giving of the Nobel Peace Prize to Liu is an affront to the Chinese people as well as the government. When people want to make a difference in China they simply vote at the local level. If they want to make a difference at another level they can join the Communist Party and vote - that's democracy.
The basic difference between the USA and China is that the USA is a 2 party system versus a 1 party system. Many countries have 3, 4, 7 or more parties and the myth we constantly hear is that multi-party democracies work better than 1 party democracies (China is a democracy).
China's 1 party democracy has allowed it to out perform virtually every country on earth in regards to GDP growth. The people give their government the highest satisfaction rating of any government in the world.
We shouldn't use a tiny minority of trouble makers to mis-represent China's citizens. The USA has plenty of fanatical, nutty, hate, and racist fringe groups which could be used to suggest that the USA is full of 2 party government haters and is not a democracy; of course this would be wrong, just as wrong as this article and the comments I've read (admittedly it is a stretch to say that many Americans don't hate government).
How on earth can a country with the highest per capita incarceration rate begin to suggest that China has civil rights issues? If you are a man the USA has 9 men in jail for every 1 man in China!
Why don't we ask the 5 million Iraqi refugees how they feel about their human rights after we invaded Iraq?
Many of the trouble makers in China also appear to be religious; China has been more permissive in regards to religion lately and I believe this is a mistake. I hope that moving forward the Chinese government will discourage all forms of religious beliefs - religion serves no purpose except to cloud reality with ignorance and superstition.
The Chinese Gov kills anyone who is a threat to their system; that is why they do not have many people in jail. The people who are in jail, right now is a low level threat so they are still alive.
You defend this despicable governments with nonsenses and false information.
Code for Nothing Sane, I started laughing until I realized you were serious. These people weren't trying to overthrow the government, they were speaking against it. They're weapons were the pen & typewriter, not the gun & grenade. And you think they same thing would happen in the USA? Let me see; "While I love the USA, I think much of the time our collective leadership have their heads in a posterior place." Now, according to you, this being similar to China, MSNBC woukld be state-run and I would have just been reported. If tomorrow the tanks start running over citizens in downtown Phoenix, we'll know you were right.
We're not perfect, I wouldn't claim we were. But we have a different definition of "freedom" than China does.
so ur infor is correct?
John: Thanks again for another fascinating and illuminating comment. Now you're really starting to make some sense, buddy!!
China executes around 1700 people per year versus 52 in the USA. However, Casylius you haven't done the math since this doesn't even move the percentage point when you look at the incarceration rate. You also need to remember that China's population is much larger the the USA.
The USA has 2.4 million people in prison versus 1.4 million in Chinese prisons. Given that China's population is 4.3 times larger the USA casts further doubt on your desire to be sensible and accurate with your information. Tell me again how you arrived at your math? You my friend are the one with nonsense and false information.
You lie pretty well from both sides of your mouth.
Well...I could postulate that there wasn't any room for rapists or murderers in prison because of all the political dissidents there...but I don't have access to those statistics.
; )
lol sparker is giving john the biz
I know..i love it. LOL
My wife is from Thailand and China is no different. If you break the law all you need to do is fork up some cash and you can get away with murder. However, in the US that doesn't fly.
Also, over 50% of China's population lives in rural areas where there is little to no law enforcement FACT.
Off topic, China's students test scores are only blowing us out of the water because the only students that are tested are those that are convenient to test. We in the US test ever butter knife in the knife block.
mr. code for nothing or who the hell ever you are. me thinks you doing damage control.i have a stron g feeling you belong to the 50cent club. you know the lackys of the chinese government that are paid to do damage control, or some crap like that. by your 2 posts here you've made about a dollar. your govenment sucks and you know it. plus your one of their propaganda jockies go spread your propaganda some where else.i can see through like a transparent shower curtain..
As oposed to your well written propaganda piece ?
At least it's well written. The same can't be said of most of the comments on this article.
Yup written with alot of propaganda BS in mind. too dam bad the people were not really thinking that.don't bother to tell me they are, because you or anyone else including the propagandda artist who wrote that piece, can say what 1 billion people are really thinking.
most comments on here, said against the illustrious government of China,may not be well written, but hell, most of them tell the truth.THE TRUTH HURTS DOESN'T IT?the government of china wouldn't tell the truth if it kicked them in the behind.the people running that government are hypocrits and born liars, they're good at what theydo. you know it, and i know it.
像这等投机的恶人都会得到美国及西方世界的关注和支持,这是人类的悲剧!任何一个主权国家都不会允许他的存在,倘若有人在美国要推翻现在的政府,难道美国能允许他的存在吗?美国不允许共产党的存在就是最好的明证!应该如此!
This and so on congenial evil person can obtain American and the Western world attention and the support likely, this is humanity's tragedy! Any sovereign state will not permit his existence, if some people want to overthrow present's government in the US, the US can permit his existence? The US does not permit communist party's existence is the best evident proof! Should so!
Whaaa????
Another Chinese liar.
I don't know what you are thinking. The US has a Communist party!!! Research your facts!!
sir you really need to brush up on your english and writing. oh and yes the U.S. does have a comunist party.perhaps you've earned your 50 cents tonight.
Gloria, you are one hell of a prejudice person. without a doubt, you are gullible to everything on paper as well as on TV. Stop hating, the world is big enough for all human kind.
WOW Al, you got to do a lot better than that!i told the man or woman to write english a little clearer. that has nothing to do with being prejudiced so get your facts straight.without a doubt you're madly in love with the chinese government,who by the way hates, and tries to censure eveything that is written or televised on the TV, that anyone says against them. why Al, that's hate,stupidity and a double standard so big it looks like a neon sign! anyone would have to be really stupid not to see through it.!
you're right the world is big enough for all human kind,but not for the type of government China fosters, or any other country for that matter.you want to talk about hate and predjudice?you need not look too far. they're selling their wares and propaganda right at your front door. smarten Al, your because you're the one, whose one hell of a gullible person.
read my post below,17.3, maybe you'll learn something.
The Poem was posted in Wenxuecity.com, please read it. It is helphul to understand the most of chinese are thinking, not just Liu Xiaobo ....
What Do You Really Want from Us?
When we were the Sick Man of Asia, we were called The Yellow Peril.
When we are billed to be the next Superpower, we are called The Threat.
When we closed our doors, you smuggled drugs to open markets.
When we embrace Free Trade, You blame us for taking away your jobs.
When we were falling apart, You marched in your troops and wanted your fair share.
When we tried to put the broken pieces back together again, Free Tibet you screamed, It Was an Invasion!
When tried Communism, you hated us for being Communist.
When we embrace Capitalism, you hate us for being Capitalist.
When we have a billion people, you said we were destroying the planet.
When we tried limiting our numbers, you said we abused human rights.
When we were poor, you thought we were dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your national debts.
When we build our industries, you call us Polluters.
When we sell you goods, you blame us for global warming.
When we buy oil, you call it exploitation and genocide.
When you go to war for oil, you call it liberation.
When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you demanded rules of law.
When we uphold law and order against violence, you call it violating human rights.
When we were silent, you said you wanted us to have free speech.
When we are silent no more, you say we are brainwashed-xenophobes.
“Why do you hate us so much﹖”we asked.
“No,” you answered, “we don't hate you.”
We don't hate you either, But, do you understand us?
“Of course we do, ”you said, “We have AFP, CNN and BBC's ······”
What do you really want from us?
Think hard first, then answer ······ Because you only get so many chances.
Enough is Enough, Enough Hypocrisy for This One World.
We want One World, One Dream, and Peace on Earth.
This Big Blue Earth is Big Enough for all of Us.
Well, this is what I want: free Liu Xiaobo & anyone that has spoken against the government but never carried out violence against it. And stop arresting them. And let your people travel, for goodness sakes. Personally I like meeting people from other countries.
The US will be fair to China when ALL Chinese citizens are heard, not just the "happy" ones on the street, but the unhappy ones wrongfully imprisoned in hospitals and jails. Why were their concerns not important enough to be heard? Answer me this, and I will answer all your questions. Until then, China will never be enlightened.
i'll tell you what we want from you. if you government can't be toppled then stop being so scared of losing power. start giving people their freedom. real freedom and do it honestly do it openly and do it by the people and for the people.do it in a way that all factions in your country can come peacefully together. it's a tall order but it cna be done.yes it can be done if you use your heads.keep tellingn yourselves it can be done.
THAT'S WHAT I WANT.Free mr. Liu. he can't harm your country he can only help it if you people bend a little work with him not against him..
“Confucius Peace Prize”? What's a joke. The communist Chinese Government invaded other people land and shamelessly claimed as theirs (Tibet region, Spratly and Paracel islands from Viet Nam, Himalaya region from India, etc.) and continued to expand their military capability to bully everyone around the region. Just looking at one of the Chinese text books with the border drawing, anyone can tell their real ambition. They can only fool themselves.
how's what u said not "bullying?" u never thought about that huh?
Thank you once again John for another razor sharp insight. You're wasting you time on this board, buddy. Ever think about applying for the anchor man position at one of the major networks? You've got way too much talent to be wasting it on a message board like this. Get out there an do it, you've got the stuff !!
Casylius you really need to check your facts. Tibet has been a part of China on and off for over a thousand years.
The USA however was invaded just over 300 years ago and taken over through war and the spread of European disease from the North American natives. They were finally killed and starved into submission during the 19th century.
Try going to the library or Googling some ancient maps, virtually every countries borders has changed over time. You really shouldn't point the finger when you don't know your facts and live in a glass house.
Haha Sparker you are relentless
Hey Code.... or is it the Kareoke king of China reincarnate ?
...Was there ever a 'kareoke king' of China?
"A return to a more repressive era?" Clearly there has been no change from the past. Thugs remain thugs who hold power by means of fear and not so hidden violence.
Free Liu Xiaobo!
Bravo Norway!
The list of Nations that are beholding to the Chinese and will not attend is quite an honor roll of model democratic and human rights paragons.
I wonder how the Chinese/English program the 50 centers are using will translate that ?
The USA needs to send an elite military extraction team and extract Liu Xiaobo right from under their noses and drop him off in Norway. We can do this.
No, the USA's fearless leaders and murderers in uniform need to stay the hell out of it.
Liu doesn't want to leave China. He was offered exile from China instead of staying in prison and he rejected that offer. So, no special forces please. And China is just scared sh*tless when you mentioned "elite military extraction team", because they really have no ability to handle that sort of things.
The Chinese government is a brutal, repressive regime that intends to hold on to power forever - and international corporations doing business in China are complicit in the Chinese leaders' barbarism. Their willingness to punish a Nobel Prize winner for daring to speak out in support of human freedom should be protested by every thinking person in the world.
And their country's "security" is a poor and threadbare excuse for such cruelty. As George Orwell said, "The purpose of torture is torture. The purpose of power is power".
China outperforms other nations in GDP growth because they started from zero. Anything is a large step compared to zero. They seem to be incapable of learning the lessons of history. Germany, before Hitler, was the world leader in science, mathematics and technology. After the Jewish intelligencia left to escape anti-Semitism they were relegated to the bottom step. China is making the same mistake. Not only are their policies damaging but it is doubtful that they can keep the lid on for much longer. The collapse will be sudden and unforeseen as was the soviet collapse.
They planned the start from zero. They suppressed that GDP so that it dropped like a rock from 1949 to 1972, so that the GDP was only one fifth of what it was. And then they move the hundreds of millions of unemployed/underemployed unproductive farmers and make them semi-productive slaves in factories, and they boast how well they had done. No other country has ever done that because no other country is crazy enough to suppress the productivity of the people.
Furthermore, most of China's GDP growth was in government directed investment into unproductive capacities. Most of their high speed rail lines runs empty. 60 percent of new apartments are unoccupied. There are cities of a million people stay empty for years. Ten lane highways that has few cars on it. They tear down ten year old buildings just to rebuild and get the GDP growth they think they need. All money for this came from money printing: China's money supply is at least twice that of the US, and China has only one third of the GDP of US. No wonder they have high inflation.
Why not let a George Washington University professor explain why China is so strong and will continue to be so for the next 30 years:
http://fora.tv/2010/11/05/China_The_Greatest_Opportunity_for_Luxury_Brands
I've traveled extensively in China and what I found was amazing development and a friendly hospitable people who are very satisfied to have lived through 30 years of continuous improvements in living standards.
Countries do not implode from happy citizens; now that is truly laughable.
Of course in this discussion you assume that you have the unfair advantage of having never traveled to China. I would suggest that you actually travel to China and explore this wonderful country that has the most dynamic and sensible government in the world.
Poiuy, actually the Chinese government targets inflation at less than 3% with varying success.
I'd like to know your sources where you claim that China has high inflation? In the last ten years China's inflation has been lower than the USA 7 out of 10 years.
Year Inflation rate (consumer prices) (%)
YEAR China /USA
2000 -1.3 /2.2
2001 0.4 /3.4
2002 -0.8 /2.8
2003 -0.8 /1.6
2004 1.2 /2.3
2005 4.1 /2.5
2006 1.8 /3.2
2007 1.5 /2.5
2008 4.8 /2.9
2009 5.9 /3.8
Maybe China's New Government office of peace will lead them into a greater understanding of the common good of all mankind. I know that sounds like a dream in a bubble, but my God can do anything!
Wow. Positive thinking? I'm surprised. God bless you though, we could use some more of that.
STOP STOP STOP buying Chinese products, PLEASE!! There ARE alternatives in some areas, clothes and food being two that can ALWAYS be bought that are not made in China. Check for your options when you're shopping. Even at Dollar Tree, if you look hard, you can find quite a few things, towels from India, glassware. personal products, candles, and food from the U.S. Go to thrift stores to buy things made in China that have already been bought the first time by somebody else. To hell with the Chinese Nazis. They don't deserve even a single PENNY of your dollars!! Let them keep all of their toxic crap! BOYCOTT !!!!
BOYCOTT WHAT?? you can buy American made stuffs from Neiman Marcus, but can you afford it?? It is not the Chinese fault, but it is the American union system. American not picking on India yet because India not powerful enough to cause a concern for US. Thank about it, US is the only country patrol the whole planet.
Throw away your computers! Your cell phones! Your televisions and any other electronics you enjoy America! We can do this!!! Sorry, but I think the American people are in ignorant bliss. And before you try to argue that your cell phone was made in the USA or Korea or Japan, maybe, after all the smaller parts were made in China and shipped there... Or you can try to charge your device without your Made In China Charger. Sorry people, there will never be a boycott of China. What you will see though, is that as China becomes more prosperous (which they are doing very quickly), making goods in China will become increasingly expensive and companies will move out because of the cost and the incentive of making more money elsewhere. It may make me a pessimist, but I will count on Corporate greed over consumer nobility to change this trend.
What the US government needs to do is to create more incentives to create jobs here in the US and begin moving factories back here into the US. Yes, at first prices may be high for all American products, but over time, as there are more workers, the prices will begin to go down. It is true, we depend too much on China, we need to begin weening ourselves off of China's products one by one with American made products.
Did you ever think why a lot of american companies (or international companies) set up a lot of factories in China? Do you think they are all silly or they forgot that there were thousands of jobless workers in American which they could create jobs for these workers? The reason they travelled far away to China for setting up factories is to earn as much profits as they can from China. I don't know the average salary of American skilled workers, but I knew the average salary for Chinese skilled worker is about 250-500USD/month. If those American companies pay such salary to the American workers, can these american workers accept it? And Chinese government offered a lot of beneficial items to the international companies, such as no business tax for the first 3 years and help the enterprises to hire more skilled or well-educated workers etc, so these American companies or international companies love to build up and manufacture the stuffs to export to America. Do you ever think these capitalist are all doing the charity to China, NO!!!! I had been working in American and European companies for more than 13 years and I knew the real face of these companies. Some international companies, the project they were building up in China are high-polluted and low-technical items, and our Chinese People has to face the facts of high-pollution which these companies kept silent when they just entered into China. I was feeling so sad that a lot of high-polluted items are prohibited in their own countries. i had been working for two famous american companies in China, these companies has the same point that they did not invest the the big money in China because they want to avoid the business tax in China, when they get the projects in China, they hired huge amount of expat coming into China in the excuse of such talent could not be found in China. that is nonsense at all. For a normal engineer position in the company, the difference of salary is huge, the american engineer's salary is 5-9 times higher than Chinese engineer. So most of the money is not earned by China, is by America.
There is a saying in Chinese " Frog in the Well" , it means the Frog in Well only could see a piece of sky through the Well, instead of jumping out it seeing the whole thing.
We are loving the american or the other companies go back to their countries to serve for their own workers, but why they don't?.
Don't dream that all the Chinese people welcome Foreign companies although I had been working in foreign companies since I graduates from colleage.
Wake up! Some American-Frog. You can do the boycott! It's up to you, but let's wait to see what will happen, of couse, we have to find out or predict when it could happen?
Sir, you are blatantly wrong. You speak of illigal immigration in a country that was founded on immigration. And you neglect to consider that the vast majority of "illigals" in this country likely do more for it than you do. Contrary to the common belief, it is not the intention of every Latin-American to rape and pillage the United States. I would argue the opposite. I personally have known a familly for many years who are "illigal" and they are the kindest, hardest working people I know and, again, do more for this country than the majority of people I see walking on the street every day. You are sadly misinformed, sir.
I will quote one of my favorite songwriters to make a point:
"I'm not part of a redneck agenda"-Billie Joe Armstrong
It means I'm tired of this radical conservative bull@!$%# that for some reason a great deal of Americans dont see it for what it really is: evil (ironic, wouldnt you think?)
Can that "illigal" family spell better than you?
He spelled one word wrong. So? What's your point?
yeah woodsy? whats your point? can't think of something to debate his argument so you had to pick a mispelled word? hmm? hmm?
I'm going to go ahead and say it now, although it might go unbelieved or unnoticed, but I am not racist, nor am I against immigration or immigrants (my wife happens to be an immigrant). But what, exactly, has this family, or any number of other illegal immigrants done for this country? Do they pay taxes? If so, who's social security number are they using? How much did they pay the thieves they got it from? How much of their money goes back into the local economy? When was the last time they volunteered? Gave to a charity? Voted for someone they thought can bring good changes to our government and serve the people of this country? I will not defend many of my fellow "citizens" that are lazy, worthless and content to feed off the hard work of others with their gross sense of entitlement, but I really am curious how much illegal immigrants can do for our country.
Yes, yes, illegal immigrants do so much for this country. Except pay TAXES. They use public services and take up jobs, and generally help the economy to suck worse than it already does. They take from the system and give nothing back. Meanwhile, US citizens are left to pay the difference. You are no longer just paying for yourself with your taxes, you are also paying for everyone who stiffed on the bill. I mean, did you ever stop to think that maybe there was an actual economical reason why we restrict immigration? Or did you think we just did it because we were mean people?
Furthermore, our country allowed large-scale immigration during a time when we had a freak-ton of space and were still developing the foundations of our government and economy. And while it is true that the US was full of immigrants, they were LEGAL ones. They got in without dodging the border patrol.
@ code - You may as well just get a 'made in china' tattoo. It would be a lot more subtle.
Hargreaves, not to detract from your comment at all, but it makes me happy that you used the word "freak-ton" in such a serious context.
Sure... it's so easy. Just like in the movies, we send in an elite extraction team. Does the Iran hostage crisis ring a bell?
Perhaps a better question is... how many of us here have even visit China to see for ourselves?