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Subscribe to RSSBEIJING - The international community was waiting for China to step up on North Korea, and on Sunday afternoon it finally did. Sort of.
At a last-minute press briefing, Chinese Vice Foreign Minister Wu Dawei – also the special representative for Korean Peninsula affairs – announced a proposal for an emergency session of delegation heads from the six-party talks to be held in Beijing early next month.
Despite disappointment that China didn't do more and although many folks here expressed skepticism about the efficacy of such talks, the proposal does take the heat off Beijing – according to one security analyst.
Our report has more:
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In the meantime, if anyone was ever in doubt about just how bad things are in North Korea, watch this video obtained by the Daily Telegraph in the UK. The material was secretly shot by citizen journalists and smuggled out of the country; it contains some unexpected footage of an ordinary woman confronting a North Korean policeman.
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People do not realize how bad it is for North Korean citizens. The "military first" policy there means that the civilians exist only on what is left after the military and leadership take what they "need." Even the slightest mis-step and you and your family simply disappear into a forced-labor camp where the only exit is death. The starvation and malnutrition is so bad that WHO estimated that the average North Korean IQ has dropped by over 15 points. If you do the math and subtract the leadership and military, you will find it works out to be over a 25-point IQ drop for civilians. This means that because of malnutrition, three whole generations of North Koreans are borderline retarded simply because of the lack of protein in their diet. Very, very bad!
Even reunification cannot fix this particular problem. The burden on the South of the health problems caused by starvation in the North would be hundreds of times worse than the burden imposed on West Germany by the problems in East Germany. I am not certain that the South Korean economy could absorb the problems without concerted world assistance.
You are quite right. Things are very bad and growing worse. But that is the unfortunate nature of war, whether it is Cold War or whether it is hot war. It is far better that we fight this military belligerence and aggression on the part of North Korea as a Cold War, rather than a hot war. The communist regime in North Korea is getting closer and closer to the point of complete collapse, and eventually that will hopefully lead to regime change. I strongly urge South Korea to make every possible preparation to receive massive influxes of refugees from North Korea, and I also plead with our allies to greatly assist them in this effort. South Korea also needs to start opening up routes for along their border with North Korea for these refugees to come in. Let Red China help communist North Korea economically if they really want to. We and our allies will have enough to do, just to deal with the future masses of refugees from the north. But it is absolutely vital to the long term welfare and success of this region that we bring the military belligerence and aggressions of North Korea to a complete halt, one way or another (preferably as peacefully as possible). - Rick Carter
PS - There are ways to choke and meter the flow of refugees into South Korea, so these future openings for refugees along South Korea's border with the north don't represent a military vulnerability to South Korea. - Rick Carter
As soon as these preparations are ready, including enough 'choke points' to safely receive these refugees from the north, I recommend that South Korea and our allies begin to broadcast to the north to invite these refugees from the north to come south. (Please don't take too long, they are already dying!) - Rick Carter
Large numbers of these refugees are going to start dying very soon in the north, with the onset of severe winter. Please hurry these preparations for refugees in the south as fast as you can. You really need to start broadcasting to these refugees within a month to come south for the winter. Please hurry, South Korea (and our allies) !!! - Rick Carter
I think we should help the people of NK to revolt. If life there has no dignity and is intolerable, I am for arming them. At least they would die fighting for their freedom. It appears for many the alternative is starvation or imprisionment. As for the homless problem, what a good problem to have. We took care of millions after WWII. Why not arm the peasants; NG is a rogue government that is out to do as much damage to us as possible.
The common people of North Korea are beyond the point of being able to revolt against the military. The military-first policy has left regular civilians severely malnourished and weak of mind and body. They would die in droves against a better fed army of several million DPRK troops. The only way for revolution to happen is for military leaders to depose Dear Leader or his idiot spawn.
MSNBC should step up and represent the whole galaxy. Playing the part of "internal community" is just too low for you almighty.
"international community"
The tepid response by China makes me wonder if the Chinese leadership tacitly or expressly endorsed the attack as a way of indirectly flexing its muscle and/or creating a problem for the U.S.
When the attack first occurred I assumed that it was a purely internal plan designed to reassure the North Korean military that Kim Jong-un would continue to give the military the primary position in North Korea. However the Chinese response (or lack thereof) leaves me suspicious of their motives and interest. I would love to be privy to what the Chinese are saying to Kim Jong-il and Kim Jong-un privately.
With China's economic interests increasingly tied to the West in general and the U.S. specifically, one would think that the Chinese leadership would not welcome North Korean adventurism. However the Chinese can be nefarious and unpredictable as well. I believe the Chinese leadership regards the U.S. as a "frenemy" to use a popular culture term, and they regard themselves in a long term competition with the U.S. for global resources and global economic domination. If that is true, then they may in fact welcome provocations that present difficult political and military problems for the U.S.
The danger of course is that such provocations may escalate out of control and result in another war on the Korean peninsula, and I doubt that the Chinese leadership wants an all-out military confrontation with the U.S. at this time.
you don't live next to NK, what do you know the kind if headaches the Chinese government is facing? It's more problematic than you average pea brain can think or comprehend... NK has been a pain in the butt for China for a long time now, yet there is little China can do despite whatever the amount of resources (if there are any) NK can supply to China.
China is out to rule the world. Right now they think they can get away with anything because I'm certain they see Obama as weak. They don't want to destroy us because we buy so much from them. However causing a little trouble for us is relatively painless for them and provides opportuities to weaken the US.
Jeff, you need to go back several decades. Your comments on Obama only show your shallow approach to our foreign policy.
I agree on all points. To put it bluntly, China will try to "treat" the U.S. in the event of war just like a bank may treat the guy who owes a ton of money to it. China will not distance itself from and turn against the U.S. until it's assured that the debt will be paid back. Once the U.S. gives such assurances and pays off at least major portion of it - all bets are off! If they attack the U.S. before that time then the debt would for sure never be paid back. Yes, China will threaten, act strong, show some teeth, grind them for everyone to hear, but when all said and done it will sit at the table or in court to "settle the debt".
There is NO conundrum. When Kim visited China earlier, all standing members of Politburo held meetings with him. All of them! How much clear does the message have to be?!
As for the 'secret' video, it means nothing. Many people can make such a video depicting a much worse image of US (or any country in the world for that mater.) Why so many people would believe the projected message in such videos, 'NK is bad', is a sad question. Because they have answered many times by blindly plunging themselves into war; they looked, but saw nothing, and accepted whatever they heard.
It wouldn't surprise me if what you say about Kim's China visit were true. China has to put on a good show of support for North Korea, their trading partner and fellow "Communist" to the south. China does not want instability in the area or a sudden rush of immigrants that might interfere with their capitalist economic expansion and increasing power on the world stage. Hence we see China does not condemn either side or pledge absolute support for either side.
As for the video, you're right in that anyone could have made it and we should view it with much skepticism. That said, North Korea has been so secretive and we have seen so little in the way of candid video footage that to see something like this is affirmation in many peoples' minds of what they have suspected all along. That there is an undercurrent of rebellion in the north.
If it means nothing to you and if it doesn't pull at your heartstrings, then you're as cold as stone and doesn't deserve the freedom you're enjoying now. How can you sleep at night knowing that millions of North Koreans suffer tremendously from oppression and malnutrition and total slavery?
The video wasn't worth watching. Sceens like that could be found all over the world.
Pretty sure North Korea = China in the different names of one country, or a military branch & a lapdog.
lame comment, you just wasted my time reading it and writing this. Lame!!!
JustGreat - do you have any substance to add to the discussion or just unwarranted personal insults?
From what I have read and heard, the Chinese are in a bind. They have no real control over NK. NK has always been very independant and really plays the Chinese to the hilt. Think about all the problems China would have also if NK failed. Refugees would flood in to China and they would have as big a problem with NK as SK would. Plus the fact that they would be all nervous with having a democratic nation at their border (assuming the two Koreas reunited if NK failed). I think the Chinese would love to see Kim and his 'awesome' son go away but would like NK to stay 'communist' in some way or at least seperate from SK. Just my thoughts. I may be totally wrong.
Excellent points Jodeman, I think you are correct - there is no way that China would tolerate a failure of the NK communist state for the reasons you give. Kim Jong-Il may be crazy but he's not stupid - I think he realizes that he can play the Chinese leadership all day long.
There have been a series of brutal shocks to North Korean society since the great famine of the early 1990s. There was the second, smaller famine of 2007 when the DPRK kicked out food aid from outside, only to experience massive flooding that destroyed its crops. And as the second video shows, the December, 2009 currency call-in was another economic disaster.
Current problems in the DPRK are not only from these repeated economic shocks, a Stalinist economy that barely works under good conditions, and a slow uncertain leadership change between Kim Jong Il and his son, Kim Jong Un. Perhaps most importantly to North Korean society is a revolution in rising expectations. The Hermit Kingdom is no longer hermetically sealed due to trade with China and the smuggling in of videos and cell phones from South Korea.
Up until recently the government could control the propaganda spin, telling its citizens that it was the bravest, strongest, freest, etc. county in the world depending on juche, Kim Il Sung's principles of self reliance. Now it's commonly known in North Korea what miserable lives they lead in comparison to their South Korean and Chinese brothers and sisters. This realization of the nature of the insanity of the DPRK government towards its citizens is a powder keg that will explode sooner or later. The role that the military will play in this (either all or in part) is unknown. But it known that the transition from Kim Jong Il to his son is yet another element of uncertainty that may precipitate a Romanian style government revolution sooner or later.
China will do nothing.
It is not in their best interests to finish this "Drôle de Guerre" that has absorbed much of the chinese weapon industry for decades now (where do you think Korea get's their "know how" to build weapons? The internet?). This war was mostly created and supported by the CCP.
If the Chinese "leaders" are to loose face or money, then they will act. Before that, the will do as if they care (the same "as if" they care for the semislave state they have created).
If North Korea will let western relief workers into North Korea, to personally distribute relief supplies to the starving people of North Korea, then I strongly recommend that western leaders do so. But I personally believe it is ill advised to put these relief supplies into the hands of the North Korean government at the present time. - Rick Carter
There is no way that relief workers should be sent into NK! The government would jail (kidnap) them and charge them with spying (hold them for some type of ransome).
The interview with that hapless girl is one of the most heartbreaking realities I have ever seen. The world has turned a blind eye to the sufferings of these people while enjoying the progress and conveniences of a free society. It's time we take responsibility for these people and help them overthrow a vile, evil government that's been brainwashing them for too long. I know my views aren't popular with the liberals on this page but I support the war, if only to ensure that the future generations of North Koreans would live in freedom.
This is one of the most heartbreaking videos I have ever seen. The girl looks like she's lost all hope and is just going through the motions. How we can stand on the sidelines partying and enjoying the conveniences of a free society and let our fellow human beings suffer from a corrupt, vile, and evil government? This has got to stop. I support the war if it means crushing this regime and giving hope for a freer country to future North Korean generations.
I HAVE A QUIZ FOR YOU! OKAY. How many of the leaders in all of the government departments of North Korea are overweight? NOW....Next question. How many of the average citizens of North Korea are overweight? LAST QUESTION. How much food has been sent to North Korea and for how many years in a row? OH..........just one more question............How much of the national budget of North Korea is spent on their Military? How many questions were you able to answer? All of them? wow...................I'm impressed! I can easily say your not a US politician because none of them were able to answer any of these questions.
There are people in North against the regime, but the regime has been cracking down so hard on them that it's almost impossible to expose themselves to plan. Those who tried or exposed have faced certain death or hard labor worse than death including entire family. There are horror stories from escapees how Christians are being treated worse than a street dog and face constant beatings or death. Kids are sold in China for nothing because parents think it's still a better life for them outside. China might want to use N Korea as a buffer zone but not at this cost. If China wants to become super power, they really need to step up and do the right thing by forcing North to treat their people properly. Or work with international community to remove the current regime. Every countries in the world need to put maximum pressure on China and N Korea to change their ways.
While the footage may seen real and the story true I am a little nervous to take all that is reported on face value. I am in the UK a so called free Country but I have witnessed the demonisation of so called rogue nations over the past ten years. It seems to me that the most rogue nation in the world is the USA and all nations that side with her including my own beautiful country. The fact remains that our countries in the west profiteer from war and the deprivation of others. We believe that NK is a global threat because we are told so. We believe that China is powerless to prevent the suffering of the people of NK with their 1 million standing army and whole plethera of advanced weapon's because we are told so. We believed that there were WMD's in Iraq because we were told so. I am a man who is so upset by the western propaganda machine that I don't know what to believe anymore. All I know for certain is that the west wouldn't function as the school bully for long without a new target to persecute. And if we don't make a proffit from war then why are we so keen to enter into one in rich nations when Robert Mugabe is in power in Africa where we know for a fact that he is destroying what is decent in that country. Why are we allowing phamaceutical companies to experiment on the people of Africa and India etc because they are poor? It seems to me that they like to guide the eye towards new monsters in order to allow the secretive kind to destroy entire comunities. My Grand Father faught against North Korea and was one of the westerners who was responsible for the huge no mans land that crosses the island. There are probably still land mines there that his hands have lain. I hope that the actions of todays leaders will not prove my Grand fathers actions a precurser to destruction. He is no longer with us and I would hate for that to be a part of his legacy. War is the failure of diplomacy and of all mankind and second to the loss of defeat comes only the loss of victory on the field of battle.