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Subscribe to RSSIn a statement released tonight over Tuesday’s skirmish between North and South Korea, the Chinese Foreign Ministry said, “China pays great attention to the event. We feel grieved and regretful about the casualties and property losses, and feel worried about its development.”
A muted response, especially in stark contrast to Washington’s condemnation, but analysts here say Beijing’s concerns should not be underestimated.
Maintaining peace and stability in the region – as clichéd or obvious as it might sound – is paramount to the Chinese central government.
“The two pillars which supported China’s political and economic transformation of the three decades over the past has been maintaining stability at home and keeping peace in the world,” said Victor Gao, an international relations expert based in Beijing. “Therefore China has a deep abhorrence to any destabilizing act by any country in this part of the world.”
And news that the U.S. and South Korea will hold another round of joint military and naval exercises is especially alarming for Beijing, according to Chinese political analysts. “The more such exercises there are, the more probably you will create tensions and maybe one side like North Korea will overreact,” said Gao.
China can't read Pyongyang's tea leaves either
Just as Beijing’s concerns shouldn’t be underestimated, nor should its ability to rein in Pyongyang be overestimated.
As North Korea’s staunchest ally and main economic supporter, China is widely regarded as the only power able to keep its smaller neighbor in check.
“North Korea is very independent. It has its own way of doing things and it has its own perception of risks and threats, which may be very different from China’s,” said Gao.
“China can’t restrain North Korea for the same reason the U.S. can’t control Israel, for example,” argued Professor Yan Xuetong, an international security expert at Tsinghua University. “North Korea and Israel can make military decisions that are beyond the control of China or the U.S.”
The best solution as far as Beijing is concerned, according to most analysts, is to work diplomatically within the six-party framework – a solution Washington finds untenable.
Regardless, there is one area in which both China and the U.S. seem to be in agreement.
Analysts in Beijing admit that what’s happening in their northern neighbor remains a mystery to the Chinese just as it does to everyone else.
“I don’t think [North Korea] is even very transparent to China,” said Gao.
With additional reporting from Eric Baculinao.
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Ah, China and her ankle biting friend North Korea! When China says bark North Korea barks and when it says attack it attacks.
Nothing like having a well trained pup ready to strike to blame for releiving itself of blame.
China gains more by having an ally who possesses nuclear weaponry than to rein in their porch attack mutt.
Agreed! just that china should not be "worried" they shoud be scared sh!tless! This will turn and bite them (as it did in the 50's)
How did China get bit in the 50's? China, one of the world's poorest countries, fought the world's superpower to a tie.
Mao wanted the Korean War. I don't think he was terribly upset by all of his soldiers that were killed. If fact we most likely did him a favor. Most of the Chinese killed early in the war were Nationalist troops that had surrendered at the end of the Chinese Civil War. What a better way to get rid of thousands of men you don't trust than to send them to the front lines?
So China and Russia are busy sending viruses, controlling our communications, giving Nuclear weapons and technology to N. Korea and Iran and suddenly they feel a need to help us? I seriously doubt that. They are the reason North Korea does what it does.
Time to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq so we can turn North Korea into a crater before China starts launching missiles from North Korea.
Please restore #2, the original post promoted good conversation. Doesn't violate the COH as far as i can tell.
Send your request to http://www.newsvine.com/_nv/cms/info/contact
They will address your concern, yay or nay. Fyi n' stuff.
People usually read collapsed comments more than those that are not, out of curiousity.
Kim Jong Il needs to provoke something to maintain control. The sanctions leveled against North Korea have seriously hurt what was left of their economy and left people literally starving. Kim needs to have an active enemy to point to in order to justify to his people the sacrifices they are making. He also uses these little skirmishes as leverage to try and get more concessions and aid during negotiations. Basically Kim will say if you want this to stop you have to give me something in return. The strategy has worked in the past and he will continue these tactics so long as they continue to work.
I think it is only a matter of time before one of two things happens. Either the rule of Kim Jong Il will collapse when the shortages get so bad he can not even keep his army fed or, seeing that he is about to lose control, Kim starts a full scale war with South Korea. He would strike at Seoul, which is well within reach of long range artillery from North Korea, and then offer to negotiate a new peace with the proviso that the North receive huge amounts of aid. The man is a megalomaniac who will do anything he can to try and maintain power.
While I realize that the war games involving the US carrier battle group were scheduled long before this latest incident, I am afraid they may provoke Kim Jong Il into doing something extremely foolish. It does not help that China also has a problem with the US carrier entering the region at this time. If Kim Jong Il sees these comments from China as support for his position, it may embolden him to escalate things further. The US should try and make a deal with China where the carrier will be kept out of the region in return for China taking action against North Korea and openly condemning the attack by North Korea. While I doubt this will happen, I think it is the best way to defuse tensions in the region. Unfortunately, I think our government will feel that a show of force in support of our ally is the best way to proceed. South Korea will also be looking for the US to demonstrate it's commitment to the defense of the South and would be upset if the US pulled out of the exercises.
Ah, "smart" Eddie,
Can you specify what exactly China can gain from her "ankle biting friend"? And based upon what evidence can your allegation "When China says bark North Korea barks and when it says attack it attacks" being proved?
What I have not seen is any further mention of what I thought I heard on the news that the 1000 centrifuges the American scientist saw at the uranium enrichment facility in North Korea were made in CHINA! And how did they get there?
Are we too afraid to follow up on that? If true it would make my blood run cold.
North Korea is CHINA'S B!T(H and everyone Knows-It. Our real enemy has been China in that part of the Word.
The Chinese economy is not strong it is ready to fold. The Chinese want NK to start something and lure in the US prior to its economy killing it from the inside. How do you think NK got the equipment for its nuke plant. The US will move everything to Korea for the fight and the Chinese will wipe it out. This is a Pearl Harbor situation.
This will weaken the US forces to the point China and Russia can take charge. This will allow the two countries to fix their economic problems by making all other countries weaker than them and allow them to take over. We can't even make our own steel.
The best thing for the US to do is to step back and see what happens prior to getting fully involved and save its fight for the real problem. China wants Korea for itself and no mater what happens Korea will belong to China after any war.
President Obama do not let them lure us into this. Fight from a distance and wate for the real war.
The fact that so many of you americans and other westerners believe that your media and your goverments are pure saints gets me very worried. Politics especially is not black and white. you blame china and russia for cyber attacks, etc and blame those countries for encouraging NK and Iran. how sure are you that such reports of china and russia are true? Doesnt your media corporations have strong ties with your government? have you not learned the lesson from the bush administration, where he claimed the existence of so called WMD's and then sent your own people to die in a war that was not necessary? what I cannot understand is how you americans are stupid enough to keep falling for the same trick over and over again. WW1 and WW2 were started by the western governments of the world to make weapons manufacturers and bankers rich. the ship, Lusitania was sunk by the british and american government to invoke the patriotism of americans so that america would enter WW1. it was your own government amongst corrupt bankers who murdered americans onboard the lustiania and then started a propaganda campaign and blamed germany for it. start using your God given brains instead of believing everything any media tells you. perhaps if we do that then we can prevent WW3. the governments of the world as well as large corporations do not give a @!$%# about any of us average people. they control us like puppets and then kill us when it suits them. this is not about being chinese, or american or anything else, its about having freedom without being manipulated into thinking what they want us to think.
Yo Neither-left-not-right.....why you copying my name?
It was weird to see that comment with a name so similar to mine...just had to comment on it.
Hopefully this doesn't escalate...this appears to be N. Korea and China trying to suck us into a war we cannot win and further drain our economy.... People accuse Obama of a "new world order" but are missing the bigger picture here. Russia, China, N. Korea all of them would like nothing more than to bring us to our knees and indoctrinate their will on the American people.
When push comes to shove, they'd better realize, we're not going to go down without a fight.
It's only one type of response needed for this type of action by North Korea!!!!
Bomb the Hell out of them!!!!
Show them that if they as a mosquito bite us.
We will squish them with our hammer!!!
Make them afraid of our hammer to prevent future deaths by this rogue regime!!!!
Who, exactly, is "we"? If "we" you mean South Korea, then more power to you. If "we" you mean the US, then you've got it wrong. North Korea did not bite us. We are not responsible for their actions. We can assist ROK if they ask us, but it should be their fight, not ours. They should be leading it, and we should be assistsing/following.
Sure. All we have to do is pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan to provide enough follow up support once the bombing is done.
The problem is, those wackos in NK actually HAVE nukes.
And you'd better be sure you'd wipe them out on the first strike, else Dear Leader might just lob one onto Seoul.
OK, let them continue to go on as they are and pretty soon they won't only have a nuke for Seoul but, one for DC as well.
In other words it will be easier to nip it in the bud now or face a more harsh punishment later.
They made it clear that they mean business by their actions.
Do we mean business???
It should not be that difficult either.
Maybe if we stop the military exercises right at the disputed border, there is more land in S. Korea where they can take place. I'm pretty sure that if the Russians or Chinese bring their fleets to exercise with Cuba at 45 miles from Florida we wouldn't be happy and probably would escalate the tension too, oh yeah, we did that when the missiles were located in a foreign country (Cuba) 38 years ago, but we don't care doing the same thing to others, than claiming they are the provokers.
Hmm ok peel. You and anyone else that wants to go to war with N.Korea gets to be on the front line when we attack. Oh and by the way, this isnt iraq or afgahn. These guys have F-16's, Nukes, Naval ships, Anti-Aircraft systems. This is a real military people. If you think you can play Bush and just throw some missles at them you got another thing coming. Obviously Peel-Layer has no idea what he is talking about. Why do you think we couldnt win the Korean war the first time. A technologically advanced military a billion strong is no walk in the park, keep playing Call of Duty, Peel, cause you know nothing about tactics.
I doubt North Korea has too many F-16's.
North Korea has F-16's? A billion man army? WTF? Just WTF.....
They have a million man army with aging hardware. It will be a blood bath and casualties will be high, but do not talk down to people when you're not even close to being right yourself.
We didn't "not win" the first war due to the military strengths of one side or the other. It was political decisions that made the first Korean War a "tie".
And N. Korea is the fkn size of New Jersey. What is your point?
Oh my bad seascum, they dont have any f-16's cause thats what we make. Here i got this from wiki.
The Korean People's Army Air Force possesses between 1,600 and 1,700 aircraft of different types, mostly of Soviet and Chinese origin.
Thanks for pointing pointing that out. Glad you had something "intelligent" to contribute.
If you are talking about a conventional war NK would loose rather quickly. Don't forget that Iraq had the 4th largest military in the world at the time of the war. They had thousands of tanks, artillery and fighter jets.
But NK also has nukes and biological weapons and unlike Iraq they are crazy enough to use them.
China is smart enough not to get involved in foreign wars. Their last big game was Vietnam and there they provided hardware and logistics but not much manpower. Their last full on involvement was the Korean War and that was under Mao who was a nut case in his own right. Todays China doesn't want anything to happen that would interfere with trade.
China doesn't want to take over the world militarily they want to buy it and they are doing quite well at it. America can hardly afford another war, if they are going to get into one in Korea it better be at the expense of SK.
I spent 18 months in S. Korea. 16 miles south of the DMZ. 122nd Signal Battalion, 2nd Infantry Division, Camp Casey, Dongducheon S. Korea. 82-83. I spent 45 days TDY on the DMZ. Some of you might want to check your facts before you go spouting off at the mouth. They have aging Russian Migs in their airforce, Not a single American F-16, Most of their weaponry is aging as well. Do they have the nukes? They say they do. They talk a lot. Talk, talk, talk. I know their missles that they've been launching are few and far from state of the art. They're bark has always been worse than their bite. I'm not saying that they aren't a threat, but I am saying the country is in financial ruin. Their leader is aging like their weponry, and is playing the last cards he has beofre turning power over to his 27 year old son. And he's crazy. He's like a spoiled brat kid throwing tantrums from not getting his way. I just hope China can step in and wake them up. Surley an all out war is far from their best interest. But who knows what they're thinking. I feel it's just their last act of defiance in the face of the world before going completely down the tubes. Cutting off their nose to spite their face, so to speak. JMO, but we all have those, don't we? Just some of us have no facts to back up what we're posting. Oh and by the way, it would be hard to move the military manuvers somewhere else, The entire country is the size of New Hampshire or Utah.
Hey jim, my bad i said billion instead of million. Thanks for pointing that out. Tie? Really WTF? you think we tied? See I can do it too... And I was talkin down to someone that thinks invading north korea is gonna be a walk in the park. Trying to get him to realize what exactly he is proposing. You wanna hop on the front line with him, be my guest.....
Tie, LOL he really thinks we tied.
@romilio
China and Russia have no ties with Cuba, and haven't for decades. The U.S. has military has bases in South Korea, because the Korean war has not as of yet been declared over, it is only on cease fire status. South Korea has the right to perform military exercises in their own territory, just like Cuba does. They do not need to seek someplace else.
If China really wanted to stop North Korea, all they have to do is tell them they will get no help from China if they provoke combat.
Pete, I have lots of intelligent things to contribute. I just like to stick to the facts and not see a lot of hyperbole thrown around. 'Billion man army and F-16's' is just plain wrong. Iraq had F-16's (not that many of them worked) and an army almost as large as NK's....so what.
I am not necessarily supporting military action, but there comes a time where it should be an option. South Korea should take the lead on this because it is their people who will be most effected. The US has a treaty with SK and we should do whatever is necessary to support them. We as a nation have a lot more in common with SK than Iraq or Afganistan and I would enjoy a weekend in Seoul a lot more than one in Bagdad or Kabul.
Borsia, your revisionist history is funny. China's role in Vietnam was marginal at best. And after the Vietnam war ended they tried to mix it up with North Vietnam and got their butt handed to them.
So far China's military adventures, where the opposing force has reasonable logistics, have ended up badly for them. Even the Korean war, with their bazillion soldiers and Soviet fighter pilots, was a wash. They would most likely do better now since their equipment is more technologically advanced. Still, a war with anyone isn't a good thing.
Personally, I think the U.S. and allies need to avoid a war at all costs. The ego's need to be put away permanently. Only when North Korea crosses the border or attacks Japan should any military action take place. Of course if they nuke anyone all bets are off.
Well said Jack.
I find it interesting that so many people don't really care what the South Korean's think about all this. I don't think too many of them are ready for the US to come guns (and nukes) blazing.
Guess I better make a correction before I hear about it. I said the entire country of South Korea was the same size as the state of New Hampshire or Utah. It's Illinois and Utah, my bad.
China and Russia have no ties with Cuba, and haven't for decades.
Leo, fact check.....Cuba has lots of ties with China. China has been very good about moving into the void that is created when US power leaves. That is why I hate the side show that is Iraq and Afghanistan. Hell, China should be more concerned with Afghanistan than we are; they at least share a border with that country. While we are wasting our blood and money (China's money really) in those two countries, China is quietly extending it's financial power throughout the world.
North Korea was armed and supported by the USSR at the war's outset. Russian pilots trained and flew alongside the Koreans during the war. Communist China stepped in at the urging of Russia to lend material and cannon fodder to the fray. Keep in mind though that even if only Korea is involved; we've developed a bad habit of waging what is known as a 'Limited War" since WW2. And the Korean Conflict was the first example of this type of war, you see where that got us. (No offense to any Korean Veterans reading this, I share your distaste for that word let's call a herring a herring and not a minnow)
Minor point, Seascum: Iraq never had F-16s, either; their inventory was primarily of Soviet manufacture. They did have a few American-built Hawk SAM launchers, but the Wild Weasels took care of that early on. Their best asset in the air was the MiG-29, but their pilots weren't up to its potential. American and Saudi F-15s took them down with ease.
Warmongers ...
Do you seriously think China would just idly stand by while we "wipe out" North Korea? Jesus wept, people; If we stike North Korea, the USA is going to end up with a helluva larger war on our hands.
One that I fear no clear winner would limp away from.
Be sure you wipe them out as well as going undetected while doing so. if N korea feels backed into a corner, theres no telling what they might do with their nukes as a last resort. Thats also a reason why I'm afraid for the men and women on the U.S.S. George. Again, if N korea feels backed into a corner and fires on a United States warship, what then? How will WE react? How will S korea react?
On another note, if we went into a full conflict with N korea, think any of our European allies will help us out?
The point of having these exercises is to display a show of power. One could say that's provocative... but that's the nature of the type of conflict the two countries are in at the moment. They have to show each other that they're still a threat, as to avoid actual war. If the North got the wrong idea that the south was easy prey, then guess what would happen? Basic military strategy.
Please restore. The original post incited good conversation. Does not violate the COH as far as I can tell.
2 restored, clarity, somewhat on-topic.
Ya and after that why not bomb some other countries just for the fun?! Are you crazy? China is an allied of North Korea, if the united states attack what do you think will happen ? China isn't reviling the all game, and of course don't forget that the three factions involved all have nuclear weaponry. I'm not saying we should not act, I'm only saying that if we are to act them we must do it with the agreement of China, and the ONU. In order to prevent the situation from escalating in to an all-out war.
Thanks tyler.
North Korea is led by a bunch of delusional nuts, they will start a war they cannot finish. What a coincidence to come out in the open with a nuclear capability update and two weeks later lob shells into South Korea. They must be out of food as the sabre rattling is going to new levels.
North Koreans are starving and the government will sacrifice them for national pride. Their general population has no access to free news and is fed propaganda to support a 5'1" ego. A recipe for disaster.......................
While not quite yet in power, we are accumulating our fair share of delusional nuts. Sarah in 2012 will top it all off.
The DPRK launching all out war is the same as ending their country.This is why the south did not go all out in their response.It is the knowledge of dual elimination for both countries that keeps them from escalating these thing into a full blown war.The same as the cold war the possibility of both warring countries being eliminated has kept the peace. The regime change will bring instability and the military will take over until a civilian government is put in place,this will come to pass in the next 5 to 10 years.Believe it.
Bingo, Bill. They are starving and SK has held up supplies. Kim has to have NK in constant war mode to appease the military, which keeps him in power and keep the masses occupied so they don't figure out what a whack job he is. NK won't go full out as they know China won't go along. Average South Koreans don't want a war. We have just 38K troops there. NK has a 5 million man army. They may be poorly equipped, but here's a lot of them and they don't mind burning a million guys to get to Seoul. Seoul is lees than an hour away and within artillery range. By the time help arrives, Seoul could be gone.
The only way we screw this up is to go into warmonger mode and take NK's bait. China doesn't want this, but will not stand idly by if we attack. Obama is on the right track and is doing what we have always done, make a military show, affirm our relationship with SK and negociate while keeping NK in isolation.
We only have 38,000 there because that's all we need vs 5 million men with sticks or the equivalant Chinese military technology.
About as scary as Iraq's "elite" Republican Guard.
Just make it clear. Launch one missle and be vaporized. China won't do anything for the same reason they do nothing about Taiwan. We owe them too much money and they don't want us to default.
Is China willing to risk their Global Economic Power? Seems like a longshot, but maybe China will finally take North Korea to the woodshed. North Korea can't be good for the Chinese economy.
That is the right answer, but over the short term, North Korea would be a major economic drag on China if the North Korean government would collapse. China would be flooded with millions of starving refugees.
China will handle starving Koreans the same way Mao handled starving Chinese.....they will starve.
Those millions of starving North Koreans won't be a drag on China's economy if NK implodes. They'll be a drag on South Korea. The East Germans didn't go to Russia, they went to West Germany. Neither group of Koreans much care for China, as they have always been the 800 lb gorilla to the north. It's just that North Korea has an idealogical commonality with China, and China likes them as a buffer state. When that usefulness to China becomes outweighed by their rogue state actions, China will "regretfully" drop any aid or support to NK quickly.
If we could raise the fever of Americans, to the level they are over the current airport security measures, to that same level over North Korean actions, then have them boycott Chinese goods, we would see how well China can influence NK. I know this would be hard on the U.S. too. So are we willing to pay the price? And it might even help the economy in the long run.
by "taking them to the woodshed" do you mean that china invades north korea, stamps out the current military regime and then asks the south to come north to unify and help rebuild the country, as china returns across the border?? That would be a heckova boost to chinas standing in the world. If america tried that we would be thrown under the bus and chastised for a long time.
actually, that is a major reason that most South Koreans don't really want to re-unify with the north, the economic drag along with trying to de-program all those thoroughly brainwashed north Koreans would be a major drag on the much smaller SK economy
@ danwill, I second your post. That's what my South Korean contacts tell me.
Thanks to our great Corporations that have handed over economic might to China, we now must content with a much stronger military power than even 10 years ago.
The advances in military hardware China has made in these past 10 years gives then the notion that they can quelch and armed response the west may wish to engage in.
As for North Korean being of an independent mind, I say that is a misconception we in the west have been lead to beleive.
North Korean does what China tells it to do. The thorn in the wests is just what China needs and uses to keep the west guessing on what the next move China does.
Nixon should have stayed home!
On the money. NK dances to the tune that China plays. Washington just needs to change the beat. Tell China we intend to invade NK and put SK in charge of the whole peninsula. China will put a stop to this nonsense quick.
Your dilusional if you think we can take over north korea. If it was possible why did the Korean War end? China would laugh in our face if we told them we are going to invade the north. This is a real military people. They have naval ships, submarines, F-16's, Anti-Aircraft systems, NUKES!!!!, and an army a billion strong. Sure thing we can invade tomorrow, as long as JW-1532016 is on the front line with anyone else dumb enough to join him.
Pete.....no one has a billion man army.
Oh btw, they dont have F-16's. The Korean People's Army Air Force possesses between 1,600 and 1,700 aircraft of different types, mostly of Soviet and Chinese origin. Also its a million strong not a billion.
The Korean war didn't end Pete. They signed an armistice agreement. A cease fire, nothing more. While statoned there in 82 and 83 there was live fire every day out of the 45 days I spent on the DMZ. The American people just never hear about it. There were infiltrators caught almost daily coming from the North. We were issued live rounds during our stay there and had to account for each and every one at the end of each day. They flew aging Russian Migs that couldn't compete with any of our aircraft. If there was a war, conventionaly, they would never stand a chance. The problem is, there's nothing conventional about North Korea. Their leader is a lunatic, and he will take his entire country down with him out of nothing more than spite. It is a terrible situation altogether, and nobody would win. Except maybe China, and who's to say they aren't loving every minute of this, really? Maybe they're allowing the North to do this, saying "we have no controll over them" just as a smoke screen? Why couldn't this be possible? I haven't heard anyone even consider this. That is scary. What better way to create havoc with the west and not have to lift a finger nor admit they're a part of it? Just a thought.
Live&LetLive is correct. The North and South have border skirmishes on a regular basis, and have had them for years. Their skirmishes simply do not make International News unless something serious happens, such as the sinking of a naval vessel or bombing a civilian village.
It is now, and always has been, in the best interest of China to keep the Korean situation as it is. China doesn't want any American bases located on it's borders, which was why it got involved in the first place. If the war resumes, our treaty says we will support the South militarily and financially (with weapons and equipment) and that is something we simply can not afford to do at the moment. All of our military resources are already tied up on a two country war and the forces we currently have stationed in SEA are simply not to the strength required to switch from a defensive posture to an offensive capability.
The *Saber Rattling* will continue as it always has because it is a stalemate. With most of our funds coming from China at the moment, to finance the two wars we are already involved in, it isn't possible. And China is most certainly not going to 'loan' us money to finance what they perceive as a threat to their own borders with a unified Korea.
If they have to rein in N. Korea, they will have to admit to past mistakes and have the failure of Communism rubbed in their face. And maybe get a bomb or two lobbed their way. N. Korea may have a broken system and aging equipment, but it would only take one successful launch to kill millions.
Thank you to the American businessman for giving away our country to China. Now they have control over the world. If we do get into a war over this, it would be the start of World War III, so it is not worth doing. Let the North Koreans starve. That will take the bite out of them. Ignore their blustering. If the South Koreans want to do anything about it, it is their deal. Retaliation in kind, not all out war. The rest of the world needs to stay out of it, including China and the US.
alot of you have failed to mention Russia as well.. North Korea has a treaty with China AND Russia
live and let live is right, the one thing that NK could do is to use their artillery to devastate Seoul before the heavily re-inforced artillery positions are taken out.
I think that South Korea could wipe out NK in an all-out fight, but it isn't really worth it to them unless the north really takes it too far.
Tell China to control thier dog or America will quit buying thier products, which we should do anyway or tax their merchandise heavily when it enters our country.
That's not a good idea, that would just hurt Americans more. The reason why we have cheap products is because we import so much from China. If we heavily tariff their imports, say goodbye to Walmart and cheap prices.
is there something wrong with saying goodbye to WalMart? bomb the yellow man into submission. Let those middle east no goods fend for themselves. God said there will be wars and rumors of wars. that patch of sand will never be settled until armegeddon. i have family blood shed in Korea. I was a tad farther south. A "police action" we lost by the way. retaliation should be swift and decisive or keep our dog on the porch
That might not be bad losing Wal-Mart. I don't buy from them because ALL they sell is cheap junk and as they say you get what you pay for ! I lived in China for 1 year and there is a Wal-Mart on EVERY corner. Let Wal-Mart move to China and see how fast they decline like K-Mart did !!!
Marlin I think you should know a war will send a lot of people to heaven....
Wall Street has already sold us to the Chinese. If Americans had one ounce of patriotism they would buy "American" and force jobs back to our shores and away from the currency-manipulating, no labor laws, no environmental laws, anti-American Chinese. The Chinese won the cold war by simply appealing to America's greatest weakness...greed.
bomb the yellow man into submission
Marlin..........oh never mind.....I don't think one can respond to this....
"Tell China to control their dog or America will quit buying their products"
Riiiiiiight! That's never going to happen. Every single person reading this article has bought a Chinese made product. And I'm tempted to add, ...in the last 24 hours. Just try Christmas shopping without buying a HENCHO EN CHINE. Stop talking nonsense.
How many of you would decry the demise of walmart on your way to WORK. Cheap is bad, you buy cheap, you get cheap, you live cheap. Expensive products made with more labor and less machinery means a vibrant economy with middle America living a comfortable balanced life. And only small business will ever achieve this. ♠
@gofishus
maybe it's time to trim back on American consumerism, and start buying fewer items that are better quality, if we rightfully tax imports, then manufacturing in the U.S. would increase, creating more jobs.
East is East and West is West.... But inexpensive does not necessarily mean "cheap". By the way, that crack about The Yellow Man is pure skin-head rhetoric. Maybe if we started buying the products that we need rather than the products we want, we could afford to buy American because we'd waste our money much less.
What really cracks me up is that most of you espouse "buying American" but, if you're honest with yourselves, won't do it yourselves. You want cheap prices, but insist on letting unions get a foothold in companies, thereby jacking prices way up (not that they don't have their place, but have become as greedy as the companies they are supposedly protecting the workers from).
Pissing and moaning about China and it's trade policies is both hypocritical and childish. What we are seeing happen over there is exactly what we saw happen here, though, it seems, we would rather forget that little fact. Try and harken back to the late 1800's through the mid-1900's during The United States' rise to being a 'super-power' of economic growth. You could easily lay one alongside the other and see no difference except that the people are shorter.
Also, if y'all will recall, China supplying NK with a nuclear processing plant (announced earlier this week), with advanced centrifuges for processing plutonium and other heavy metals which could be used as fissionable material (e.g. nukes) is exactly what we did with the Israeli's in the 50s. Saying they're wrong and we were right is, again, hypocritical.
darn right on the unions... the other stuff i dont so much agree
JW - it is just those foreign lack of regulations that makes it possible to produce the goods that america WANTS to buy.
Saw some photos of beijing earlier this week concerning their smog concentrations. My question would be where are all the US and European tree huggers demanding that we boycott chinese and other 3rd world emerging markets made products because they (china and others) are polluting the world? Likewise for the american mfg unions?
I feel that there will be no end to this conflict but war which is sad to say. We all have to realize that North Korea is not like any country in the world which the U.S. can tell what to do and they are going to listen. Just like the U.S. wouldn't listen to any country in the World. North Korea will always be stuborn just like the U.S. is stuborn. I feel if the U.S. is going to do another military excersize with the South be prepared because most likely there will be another attack. North is not afraid because if a massive war breaks out they know that China will get in it & than we will have World War III. The North also knows that the U.S. is so far streched militarily and that is why they don't mind sending a message to the South. If this where to break out to a massive war in order for the U.S. to Help the South win we would have no choice but to go nuclear because the North will not stop untill everyone man, woman is killed. I am deathly afraid not only for all of the Korean people but also for our U.S. citizens.
The one good thing about China embracing Capitalism is now they have to weigh the economic options before they act. Make it about money and the decisions get tougher. You're not about to get folks who have tasted a better life to grab up a copy of Mao's "Little Red Book" and go stomping off to war. This is good for them.
Right on the money.... IF China were to back the North we simply say to them "Hey you know ALL those notes and bonds you hold... Wipe your A$$ with them, they are now worthless... TWO Problems solved in one fail swoop... North learns not to mess with the US and the South and China no longer owns 87% of the US debt... Oh, and GOOD BYE WALMART... HELLO AMERICAN FACTORY JOBS... (WITHOUT THE UNIONS TO RUIN THEM) All seems quite easy if you ask me... China is as dependent on the US as we are on them... They would NOT DARE back the North for fear of the above...
Go South Korea and the Good 'Ol USA...
Shaun, do you really think our economy will be all rosy once we start defaulting on our debts? I fear the world economy is far more complex than you imagine.
Shaun you have no clue how international finances work do you. Sure, we tell China that we aren't going to repay the loans and then they respond by not loaning us any more money. Since the majority of the factories you are so proud of have been signed over as collateral against those loans, there would be no factory for you to go to work in. Most of the steel still produced in America is shipped to China (to make those low cost items you like) so suddenly those factories shut down. And finally, since pretty much all of the machinery needed to run your factory is produced in China, your factory is just an empty building as the tools and equipment you need is no longer available because your credit is no good.
Meet at Barksdale AFB; load up & take care of the problem on one pass..
China is National Socialist (Fascist) and N. Korea is it's surrogate
At least China woke up and gave up Maoist Communism.
The DPRK will collapse and starve its people before it wakes up.
MK, they may have given up Maoist Communism, but they are still a communist country. State controlled capitalism is simply their new economic model. They can change that in a heartbeat.
Why China Worried! now that's new!they shouldn't worry since they've been the suppliers of North Korea for a ah ah, oh say the last 60 YEARS. they're worried, sure they are,and i'm the easter bunny. ooh wait it's christmas time, i'm santa claus. what a load of bull crap.
M L Garrick BINGO
up jumped the rabbit!!!!!!
Gloria ... Right on the mark. Also, as others have said ... China is N. Korea's supplier, and they could effect change. Remember also N. Korea is desperate. As their economy collapses, they may feel that they have nothing to lose. Start a war, blame their destruction on someone else.
China may have some influence, but not as much as you may think. The comparison of the US and Israel is not so far off the mark. Look what happens to politicians who try to 'reign' in Israel....it frequently is political suicide.
North Korea was largely a creation of Mao. To not support NK is to say that Mao is wrong. While Mao has been discredited somewhat in China there are a lot of people in power who are where they are today because of Mao.
Crazy people with nuclear capabilities -Tell the North Koreans to hold off until 12/21/2012. They can have the honor then of lighting off the birthday candles to World War III.
Of course the only country to ever actually USE nukes is good ole US of A.
Put your head back under the sand. We had enough of you Lib's in the 60's. And you don't even realize how you__— supported the NVA. Now you want to duck and run ?
Only because we completed one first. Germany and Japan were both trying to build an A- bomb and either one of them would not have hesitated to use it on us. Japan was warned that we had a weapon like the world has never seen and would use it. Japan was given the chance to surrender, they did not, so we showed them we weren't bluffing, still they did not believe, then two weeks later we used it again then they believed and surrendered. To invade Japan our losses alone were projected at one to two million troops not to mention their losses both military and civilian. So in all actuality us using nukes to end the war actually saved more lives than it took. By the way, if there had been no Pearl Harbor there would have been no Hiroshima. I'm glad we got it first. Actually the way a war is supposed to be fought is to fight to win using any means at your disposal, not play nice with them like we do now in some half a$$ed effort not to make anyone angry at us. Our leaders have no will or backbone for actually fighting a war to win.
sotiredofthis, Do you ever stop with your way-left liberal BS? The crazies (part of the "axis of evil") may yet start a world-wide conflagration, and all you can do is spout partisan BS. Grow up!
Amen to soldier's dad! The only way to eliminate a threat is to remove it entirely. Germany wasn't stopped during WW1, took WW2 to stop that. Playing nice in Iraq the first time didnt work. Left Hussein in there, should have smoked him when we had the chance, guess what, back there too. An enemy must be eradicated and eradicated in a brutal fashion. Insanity does not listen to rational thought. We must bring an iron fist down on all and show no mercy (to a point, our "mercy" in ww2 saved lives by allowing germans to feel comfortable surrendering). Which brings me to Pete. Are you an idiot? You talk about F-16's like they are the king of the sky! That plane was made over 20 - 30 years ago! Heck, the F-117 took 20 years to come out into the open, and we just came out with F-22's! You think that we dont have something to trump what we already have? If we go to war with an ACTUAL army, the world will see things that probably cant even be imagined.
Cutter - how is a fact "way-left liberal BS?" It is a fact that, so far, only the United States have used nuclear weapons in war. Is the fact that Japan attacked Pearl Harbor 'way-right conservative BS??'
I truely don't understand your reasoning.
@Tim Robers
Cracy people with nuclear weapons........... that also applies to the zionists in israel.
I disagree with the author's assertion that China has little influence over North Korea. China contributes up to 90% of North Korea's vital food and fuel needs. China could bring down the North Korean government by not allowing any weapons or luxury items to be transported through China and by giving no military assistance to North Korea. If Kim Jong Il's liquor supply is cut off, he may sober up a bit.
If North Korea were ever to succeed in taking over South Korea, the new captive population would be like a poison pill that would cause the Korean communist government to implode. That would, in turn, bring democratic government right up to the border of China.
However, if China were to strongly limit the agressive actions of North Korea, there would be an establishment of a peaceful status quo throughout Korea, which would preserve the political buffer state of North Korea in a milder, tamer form.
Thank you for the voice of reason here. What is wrong with all of the people crying for more bombing and war. Haven't we lost enough young American men and women recently in Iraq and Afghanistan? We need diplomacy and restraint. The people in North Korea are starving. It is winter now, and I am sure there are so many of their people suffering from lack of warmth and food. North Korea is like the mouse that roared. It is hard to know what direction a mad man like Kim Jong Il will take. Restraint, people, please, restraint.
North Korea is not really a mouse.....more like a very large rat with nukes.
North Korea has some strong points. The amusement factor alone is worth it. I certainly don't think China will defend N Korea. The last time they did there was nothing to lose. If they challenge the West militarily China can join them, (forfeiting their economy), or reel them in.
I TOTALLY agree with Born American. We should tell China to rein in their puppet regiem or face dire consequences with their economy ! Whether they do or not I agree America should put a heavy tax on ANYTHING that comes from China or other foreign countries that take jobs from America. We should also STOP giving foreign aid to every country in the world and use this money to pay down our debt ! !
In fact, why don't we just default now on all the Federal notes China owns.
Jeff, it is time to wake up and smell the coffee. We are way beyond "telling" China what to do. Talk, negotiate, use diplomacy.... that might work....maybe. But 'tell', no those days are over. China is well on its way to being the world's largest economy. It has most likely the second largest military in the world and is beyond a shadow of a doubt the most powerful thing in all of Asia. China is no more going to like being told what to do anymore than the United States of the 1800's wanted to be told what to do by Europe.
Whether you like it or not (I don't) it is the dawning of a new era.....a Chinese era. Better bone up on your Mandarian.
If we roached on China, the dollar would plummet. If we then enacted Nixon era wage and price controls, and played our cards right, we would virtually destroy China's advantage in no more time than it would take to convert the nation's ghost towns back into vibrant manufacturing centers. The world would be forced to buy everything from us.
jeff06619:
Everything said in this post is crap except the last sentence....."we should STOP giving foreign aid to every country in the world and use this money to pay down our debt ! ! Indeed we should stop aiding israel for $3 billion+ a year.
You go home now. You no eat no more. You eat too much. Me love you long time.
The South should respond immediately and decisively without the hands on help of the US. Japan should offer every bit of support within it's power to send a very strong message. North Koreas attitude needs to be challenged immediately.
The people along the North Korean/Chinese border are jumping the Yalu River into Chinese towns at night to steal shoes and rice. That has been going on for years. Many are now risking their lives by taking their families into China permanently. They live in hovels, pay protection money to the local bosses, sell their daughters as whores and eat whatever they can scrounge.
Yes, Kim Jong Il, the "Dear Leader" is quite a guy. The fat kid, Kim Jong Un won't be any better.
I think the people of the DPRK are slowly waking up to that, and the governments days are numbered. Sadly it will be a huge humanitarian hole that is left...
I just realized that the arabs are the n*gg**s of the world and the North Koreans are the red-headed step child that nobody loves.
And Jack-o is a racist idiot.
Agree, Seascum..
And Caucasians are the fat blond kids who think they are smart and important but really aren't. And the Chinese are the ones who are smart and important but think they aren't.
China has been told to get North Korea on board in Nuclear talks, in armed conflict actions many times over. China does tell North Korea what to do.
Chinese goods in the USA, we no longer have a choice, we buy from them becuase we have created the biggest supplier of cheap goods. Nothing is American made.
The next biggest producer of goods is German ( I beleive) those goods are too expansive for american tastes.
Had we put an end to corporations outsourcing jobs out of the USA we would not be in a weaken economic state as we are today.
China knows they have America by the economic short hairs and will continue to squeeze until it gets everything it wants.
History has shown over and over again that to give away an edge eventually leads to that societies demise.
American greed at the highest level has performed the checkmate for China to hold over us.
You are totally correct. china has us by the b@lls because we allowed our so called elected officials trade american jobs for cash in their pockets ! i say to hell with china and the rest of the yellow bastards. If truman had left macarthur alone in the 50's china an nk would be speaking english now !!!
dude, as much as this is slightly true, any country has a right to gain a political foothold in the globe, in a matter of speaking. china was destroyed by the so called civilized western powers during the 1800's. after about 100 years of struggling, china finally can regain some respect and stand alone. from what i interpret, you're hate stems from ignorance. if you look at this way, the europeans prob thought of this when the americans revolted and became a major power. there is no difference here. Difference in race or language does not mean they are any lower or better than the one you have. it's like making americans trying to speak french or proper british english, would that happen? no. realize that it's people who think like this, is one of the major things that screws up the world.
Ram, your words make me feel so much better as I watch our way of life disappear. Not! I would propose that it does not have to be that way. I dont see any reason why one country has to prosper at the expense of another. If the only way China can assume a position of power in the world is to 'rob' jobs from others by providing cheap labor, polluting the environment, and manipulating its currency...then f them. The euros have shown that you can build decent economies by offering quality goods, while protecting your workforce. So have the Japanese and S. Koreans. We need to reign in our traitorous Wall Street executives and put our own citizens first when it comes to jobs and trade.
I guess we can tell where Ram's patriotism lies.
Nothing Ram said is 'unpatriotic'. Trying to understand current politics in and around China without having some background knowledge of history is just plain ignorant. Shall we say Robin, "we know where your ignorance lies"?
America messed up with NK when GUTLESS Clinton was in office the same as we have done with Iran and their nukes. We should have bombed nk factory and let Israel take care of Iran ! ! !
who you calling yellow bastard. only white bastards do so.
The more sobering aspect is to ask what happens if this scenario repeats a few years hence, if the reactionary right in the US imposes Sarah Palin on the country.
Specifically, what happens after somebody points out North Korea on the map for her and pins a black hat there and puts the white one on South Korea, then gives her the obligatory five minutes and 300 blinks to let it sink in...
OMG -- and I could NOT make this up. She just finished up a radio interview in which she said we must "stand by our North Korean allies..." Forget what I said above, the hats are not going to help...
I didn't believe this at first, but hot damn you are correct. At least Glen Beck was on top of the situation.
http://channel6newsonline.com/2010/11/sarah-palin-we-gotta-stand-with-our-north-korean-allies/
Just so we're all clear here... I tend to be conservative, and, I'd like to believe, relatively well educated... IMHO, Sarah Palin does NOT represent any conservative ideal I believe in. In fact, she is just outright embarrassing. Frankly, I feel sorry for all Alaskans whenever I see her, as I know that 98% of the population HAS GOT to be smarter than her... sigh...
I couldnt believe Sarah Palin was that stupid either ... but, Seascum ,using your link in post 20.2, I found that NOT only does she believe we are allies with the communist North Korean regime and should stand by them, but we must stand by those peace treaties. I wish someone could find a way to convey to her her feeble thought processes that WE DONT HAVE ANY KOREAN PEACE TREATIES ... merely a cease fire agreed to in the Armistice signed in 1953, which N Korea continues to blatanly violate, progressively in more serious ways each time. That 1953 Armistice is between S Korea & USA and N Korea and its allies, China and Russia
We are not quite all the way there yet, but the road we are on leads there.
I lived and did business for 20 years in China in a joint venture with the Communist Government. I well know the hidden agendas and the corruption. With China, what you see is NOT what you get.
With North Korea, what you see IS what you get: a tired, broke, dysfunctional, inbred little mess willing to risk everything to support the central militaristic regime, while the population is left to freeze, starve, and die by the millions.
China is sly and crafty. North Korea is dumb and arrogant.
All you that like to envision yourselves and some sort of economic or international experts keep saying things that only prove your absolute clueless approach to things of the world. Sure, let’s bomb North Korea and start another war. You are the same indignant people that wanted to go to war in Kuwait, Iraq, and Afghanistan and who are now blaming the wars on President Bush and blaming him for the wars you so strongly supported in the beginning. That does not seem to hinder your decision to want to go to war with North Korea. Get a grip. You say to heavily tax all imports from China. That is intelligent too. Taxing these other countries will not bring the jobs back to America it will only cause the prices of all things coming in from these countries to raise in the midst of our economic meltdown which was proudly given to you by the ruling dumbocratic party. You indignantly blame China and all the countries that are making the things America no longer produces. It seems to elude you that it was American corporations that sent the jobs overseas in an effort to increase their profits at the expense of American workers. We sit here and watch the American corporations profit margins grow and blame countries like China for the economic growth they are experiencing. How about putting the blame where it belongs? Blame corporate America. That is where the blame belongs. Blame the federal government of America for borrowing gigantic sums of money from China and allowing them to own the majority of American debt which America does not want to pay back. America wants China to devalue its currency so the amount of money America owes China will be less. America is embarrassed because its position as number one is being threatened by a situation America business and America itself created.
good one! i finally hear some sense and reason!
drkangel, an EXCELLENT exposition.
You got everything right except the part of blaming the Democrats alone for 14 years of Republican sell-out and trickle-down economics [and you know what came trickling down, don't you?]. Democrats do get a share of the blame for being such gutless wienies by supporting a NAFTA treaty made in China, by allowing Bush II to rape the economy further by waging unnecessary wars incompetently [the better to pad Dick "Halliburton" Cheney's wallet], and by caving every time the Republicans put on a pout.
It is too late, people, to get tough with China; that boat sailed years ago. The Chinese own trillions of our debt, and all they have to do if we retaliate is to retaliate right back, by quitting buying our debt. What they don't own, the wealthy OPEC countries do; isn't it great to owe so much to people who hate us?
Can we blame the people of this country for being ignorant and greedy too. We all enjoy tapping away on our cheap communist computers and listening to our communist ipods and of course feeling all patriotic when we see those American flags flying at Walmart. We the people have a choice (or at least we did) of what we buy and where we spend our money. I am afraid that in our greed to have everything now and have lots of it we have sold our souls.
the economy is in the tank from the republican party that allowed this to bollster the housing market/ open trade again began during the Reagan administrartion again republican
drkangel ... we, the USA, has been at war with North Korea since 1950. In 1953, an Armistice was signed merely ceasing fire ... NO PEACE TREATY HAS EVE BEEN SIGNED TO END IT. We will not be getting into another war ... we are in 3 wars currently, just we have a cease fire currently with N Korea. North Korea is desparately attempting to re-activate that war so it can cash in on America's tendencies to rebuild it on ITS TERMS.
Pointing at the Dumbocrats or Repukeicans just highlights the "I'm stupid" fingers pointing back at ourselves.
When the auto industry started shipping jobs to Asia in the '70s and the unions started complaining, my uncle took us to the local car plant where he worked and asked us to count the Japanese cars in the parking lot - 20%. We ship the jobs overseas by demanding the lowest costs.
'90s When my wife and I were told to buy a house because we would neither have to prove our income level nor qualify for the loan (Gov Cuomo was HUD boss under Clinton), we looked at the values and decided the prices were bloated. The government doesn't force us to lie on loan applications.
Our personal greed has caused our problems. We are selfishly corrupt who elect politicians who will steal water from other states so that we can have grass lawns in the desert. Force high taxes on people who live on dirt roads so that we have private churches renovated. Maneuver the feds into building more bridges (instead of maintaining the existing ones) because we're too proud to use the subways. Shall I discuss the Idiots who support the former VP who makes millions preaching environmental issues while running around in his private jet? Oh, no carbon footprint there, we're flying.
We cry about the politician's votes being influenced by moneyed unions and corporations, but we chose Al Gore - the pretty-boy insider - over Bill Bradley - a true intellect who chose to continue his education before being paid millions to play for the Nicks (by the way, Bradley is an intellect, unlike Clinton, he actually graduated from Cambridge). We chose to run a left-wing idiot against the right -wing idiot and wonder why we're in two worthy, but unwinable wars.
I applaud the Tea Party. Not for their policies (I think most are laughable), but for their fortitude and willingness to form a second party (I think we have one party with several names). If they will vote both sides to achieve the best laws, we are headed to a true democracy. We just need three or four more parties.
Griz - All three of the major candidates for pres made tens of thousands from the wars. Both Clinton and Obama sold their defense stocks about 30 days before declaring their run. McCain was honest about it. Cheney created a corp that allowed the military to maintain more active combat troops by converting support troops to civilian jobs. That corporation saved the taxpayers billions of dollars. It would have saved us billions more if they hadn't been stealing so much.
rjt
china is just as ruthless as NK. They censor everything in the news and only let their people hear what the government wants them to hear. I witnessed a beatdown of around 100 workers because they wanted better working conditions. The govt sent in truckloads of soldiers with clubs and others stood by with ak-47's.