Let's rattle the reality cage and draw "itssobering" a clue:

Though Graeflded's remarks drip with hyperbole, I was in the business world during the 80s when having a drink or two at lunch--even with a client or vendor--was just fine. I lost track of the number of deals cut over a couple of Crown-and-Cokes, the terms and sketches written on a fistfull of bar napkins.

Unfortunately, moderation isn't the strong suit for a huge number of people so I regularly heard stories of people getting hammered and burning bridges: clients hitting on vendors, venders hitting on clients, bosses groping subordinates (generally male), subordinates propositioning their bosses (male and female alike), DWIs, collisions, arguments ruining business relationships, etc, ad nauseam. That's just at lunch, and doesn't address company Christmas parties, golf outings, weekend getaways....

Those types of things led to a litany of lawsuits, which, in turn, have made it taboo to even glance at the wine list let alone having a drink. People hit the extreme end of drinking so many times that alcohol has been demonized, and having a drink is akin to taking a crap on the table. The extremism went so far in the other direction that people have forgotten that "adult beverages" are to be enjoyed for their unique flavor, and that a single margarita doesn't mean the person on the other side of the table is a lush.

So, even though Grae was being a bit silly with his/her remarks, they weren't too far from the truth.

On a final note: your post obviously wasn't an attempt at making a point. It was just another pointless effort at being a politics-baiting troll. There is nothing "left" or "right" about Grae's post, but you still managed to twist it into something that you can categorize into a simpleton "yes-no/us-them/left-right/liberal-conservative" pseudo-political argument and bitch about it, as evidenced by your 'uniquely' apropos moniker.

If this site is so "leftwing," and you have such a problem with it, then why are you here? Go over to WorldNutDaily or the National Enquirer for something more suitable to your "non-leftwing" tastes. I'm sure they'll be more than happy to supply you with all of the juvenile, left-hating, conspiracy-tripe you can enjoy.

Welcome to terminal ignore...ahem...ya clown.

Well said, Fred. That was a very thoughtful reply.

Thanks guys, I guess itsobering is just a wee bit sensitive on the issue. Fred, just like you I came up in the business world during the '70's and '80's when a liquid lunch and dinner were still part of the business culture. I saw too many deals go bad and good people get hurt. In 1987 I decided that wasn't going to work for me, but to this day I still see the same corporate behavior.

Sorry, itsobering, the western world is drunk and stupid. The east is drunk and stupid. Too bad we all can't just light up a joint and relax. I guarantee you the world would be a better place, at least nobody would be passed out in the gutter pissing themselves, nor waking up hungover.

Itsobering, I don't remember saying this was a Democratic or Republican issue in my post, where did you get that? Nor did I cast aspersions on our great country. Where did you get that?

You, my friend, need to chill out before some drunk takes a swing at you.

And stop with the name calling and clown business, it makes you seem foolish and juvenile.

Gosh itssobering, you are all wound up today. No sense of humor, no ability to have any fun. And a terrible chip on your shoulder. I take it all back, go have a drink and call me in the morning.

BTW, if you are a member of the right wing, WHERE ARE ALL THE DAMN JOBS AND WHY HASN'T THE DAMN ECONOMY IMPROVED YET? Hell, you've had almost 2 weeks.....

You're not fit to be with us clowns, you're a moron.

For the troll known as "itssobering:"

Even though I put you on terminal ignore, your post managed to show up anyway, like a drug-resistant virus or the smell of dog @!$%# after an entire can of room freshner. You were enough of a lemming to make sure to use all of the inane cliches that one would expect from the intellectually challenged.

As I inferred in my original post: your garbage was a veritable exercise in the simpleton "us-them" tripe that the juvenile mind is able to grasp. So let's dance, and I'll do the leading since you're obviously incapable of thinking for yourself:

1.) I don't hate this country--as you try to claim--but I'm not so infantile and delusional to believe that we're perfect. I can call things for what they are without the "all or nothing" mindlessness that you obviously subscribe to. Your "all or nothing" mindlessness is the epitome of your statement about doing what's trendy.

2.) My memory isn't "selective," as you try to claim. My post was germane to the topic at hand, and addressed the topic -not the scattershot of irrelevant crap and ignorant speculation that infested your literary feces.

3.) Just by the fact that I was in the business world during the 80s--and spoke highly of the era, mind you--would disabuse even a semi-comotose gerbil of making remarks claiming I am a kid. Even if I was 20 in '85, you could have counted on your fingers and toes to determine that I'm about 45. I guess basic math isn't in your rightwing arsenal, either, along with simple reading skills.

4.) My first vote I ever cast was for Bush the Elder. When I lived in Houston, I had the pleasure and honor of meeting him and Barbara (mid 90s) -they lived in a gated community around the corner from my gated community and were out walking one day.

5.) #4, and your ignorant assertion, proves exactly what is wrong with the current crop of pseudo-conservative idiots: just because I lack the abject stupidity to subscribe to your crap, your 9-volt brain can only fathom one other scenario: "he must be a liberal." Ten seconds of reading my posts on my Newsvine page would have prevented you from showing how little you grasp reality.

6.) The typical snit of the spanked imbecile will invariable turn to allusions that only military service qualifies one to be a real American. Wrong. Maybe blindly following orders is something you aspire to but it's not a life I found appealing. But, because you asked: I have been a volunteer firefighter/EMT for 14 years in a little community at the southern tip of Austin, Texas. I have the same certifications as paid guys, but do the same job for free -it's the idea of serving my community that indicates you can take your pedantic remarks and shove 'em. Additionally, I also deliver meals on wheels as my schedule allows and work with Big Brothers, Big Sisters of Central Texas. I do all that around my regular job and work for my Master's degree. And I don't give a tinker's damn if you believe it or not.

7.) As has already been pointed out (by me and Grae), you made a neutral comment into some political discussion, and justify with your mindless drivel about MSNBC being a political site. Working feverishly to polish your turd-argument doesn't make stink any less.

8.) Yes, honey -you politicized the article, not Grae.

So tell us: what do YOU do for this country besides act like a four-year-old that makes up bull@!$%# and fabricates outrage and difficulty where none exists?

Actually, my statement is rhetorical -I really don't give a damn about you lesser lifeforms on my planet -Newsvine's "ignore" function may not work every time, but mine does.

Aww they're so cute lying there in puddles of drool with their little business suits.

Don't know if the pic was staged or not, but on the first day I was teaching English at a Chinese middle school the principal of the school took me out and demanded I drink with him until one of us passed out to prove who was the greater man. He got drunk enough that he forgot about the challenge, so I was able so start drinking water and pretending to still drink baijiu.

Then he capped off the night by offering to pay for a whore for me to take home.

Classy.

@Kris, Wow that is just Awesome!!! Good trick with the water!

The picture looks staged to me too.

You guys clearly haven't lived in Asia. I have, in Korea, and believe me, this type of binge drinking followed by public passing out is very common. I used to tell friends about having to step over passed out business men on randomn Tuesday afternoons. They would have one half in the gutter, one half on the street, splayed out just this picture. Go to www.blackoutkorea for more.

I spent 16 years teaching middle school and no principal ever offered me a prostitute. Those Chinese are cagey!

During the early eighties I worked for a large well known corporation in L.A. The boss was a drinker who insisted we all drink with him at the monthly ' team building lunch '. We decided as a team, that we had enough of it, so after the first round of kamikazes, we secretly told the waiter to keep bring him doubles, but make everyone else water with Rose's Lime Juice.

Poor sucker, 8 Kami's later we all left him with the tab for 20 people bar and lunch.

Yep. www.blackoutkorea. You're not allowed (culturally) to say no to your elders or your boss, so many people get passed out wasted even when they don't want to.

I agree with you Hal. Lunch is me time.